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128 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 62996 6-Mar-2007 17:17

bradstewart: How could you possibly know what Telecom are going to do?


Excuse me -- I obviously wasn't clear enough.

I think Telecom will now fall back on their secondary argument: "We are going to restrict these services until a majority of customers want them". And until there is some independent, reliable data on what a majority of customers do want, they'll be able to get away with it.

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 63115 7-Mar-2007 19:28
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Is this secondary argument publicly stated by Telecom currently, or were you guessing they have this in the wings?

Bit unclear to me from what you have said sorry.

128 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 63116 7-Mar-2007 19:30

Sorry -- pure speculation on my part, nothing more.

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  Reply # 63233 9-Mar-2007 07:42
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You could try a US based anonymous proxy server to route the download and/or DRM through. Tricking WMP for the DRM can be tricky as MS holds a database of proxy servers and denies access if you use one, so there's a bit of trial & error to find one they don't know about.


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  Reply # 63296 10-Mar-2007 01:25
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Just a data point. I could not play the file I purchased from BT on two machines for a number of technical reasons. Mainly DRM of course. Finally after a number of messages to TS they authorised another machine (you get two by default). I tried on a brand new laptop preinstalled with XP Tablet Edition and WMP11. It also failed. But this time I was able to go to a Microsoft link to update WMP11 to handle DRM problems. When I played the video again, it popped a dialogue box asking me to enter my BT logon and password. When I did that it authorised the machine to play that video and then it played! 

So the DRM did not check what country i was in. I suspect the US checking occurred when I downloaded the torrent file and when I did the purchase.

So it works but what a hassle. Nothing much else there I am interested in and anyway, having content restricted to one computer is just too restrictive for me




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


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460 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 63514 13-Mar-2007 02:23
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Now isn't it interesting how bittorrent has become a condemned protocol?

Its very interesting because the entities which view bittorrent as an enemy, - essentially made it so. In a nut shell, the whole traffic-management, DRM situation etc has made bittorrent appear to be something for 'naughty uses only'.

The severely late-arriving, extremely restrictive access to legal bittorrent videos provides a good example. Look at the previous post. He was jumping through all kinds of hoops just to play a video.

I also had to seek out software which was the subject of insane legal battles and essentially 'illegal' just so I could watch a DVD movie which I bought from the store on my computer. I just didn't buy Windows. I can't afford it so I got Linux. I'm referring to deCSS etc. No piracy. I'm not selling copies. I just wanted to watch a bloody movie on a computer that I paid for.

At least from my point of view it seems remarkably similar to some countries attitude towards alcohol or smoking, or weed. Or guns. Even prostitution. The laws are put in place so that law-abiding and honest people don't have access to the technologies, but nasty people do.

I think if we're to learn anything from these examples it's that traditional laws don't apply to digital rights, and that also I think we can learn from the different countries approaches to other 'bad' things in society.

EDIT: Not supporting Macs or Linux because 'it takes up too much resources/money and not enough people are out there' is an excuse. I hear the same excuse from all sorts of companies in different roles, and it doesn't make any sense. Software can be built to be cross-platform easily if you've decided so from the beginning. OS support is a non-issue. The fewer requests for help offsets the time taken to provide support. It's my speculation that there is some other kind of reason for them to be glued to Windows-only.



128 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 63561 13-Mar-2007 11:59

weblordpepe:  Software can be built to be cross-platform easily if you've decided so from the beginning. OS support is a non-issue. The fewer requests for help offsets the time taken to provide support. It's my speculation that there is some other kind of reason for them to be glued to Windows-only.


It is certainly easier* to use DRM software already present on many customers' computers (Windows Media Player 10) than make your own. Is that what you mean? Do you think that's the reason they're glued to Windows-only?

*Although potentially less effective





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  Reply # 63566 13-Mar-2007 12:51
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In my situation I got hit with two hurdles, DRM and country specific marketing.

Was able to overcome the country specific marketing fairly easily but the DRM was a major hassle. So for even those who are in the right country (viz. the US) I could see that DRM would not be something that could be easily navigated.

A lot easier of course with dedicated devices like the iPod where licence acquisition and playing of content are separated. In the Microsoft situation they are linked together with DRM and WMP tied together.




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


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643 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 63571 13-Mar-2007 13:21

I don't like the way bittorrent and DRM are married in this case. It's like an uncelibate affair of technologies.

The media mafia have no concern for your rights to fair use, this much is obvious. DRM is born from the attitude that piracy is stealing. Piracy is not stealing, it is copying - there is a subtle but important difference the media mafia refuse to acknowledge so as to further the DRM crusade.

Supporting DRM on the OS is not a choice the OS vendor usually makes, and judging from reading Microsoft's blogs DRM is costing Vista a growing number of sales. The sooner big companies like Apple and MS publicise the fact DRM is financially deleterious the better. If the media was accesible, we would buy it, DRM solves nothing. We will all backup our CDs and DVDs no matter what and for years to come because not only is it our right to do so, disks break and get scratched! and storing 700MB XviD instead of 4.7GB of MPEG2 has obvious attractions. DRM has no place in the modern, tech-savvy world.

I know I don't use Windows Media Player, even on Windows, so content publishers using WMP's DRM face the same non-compatability problem anyway. The 'legal' title found on bittorrent.com misleads us to believe we will be fairly able to buy and watch a movie.




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460 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 63607 13-Mar-2007 17:31
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Wow thats some pretty good responses. I thought I'd get flamed for not being pro-MS again.

I really hope bittorrent gets utilised. I mean - hell - the technology is solid. It works. It's the solution ISPs and telcos have been looking for. It lets you send/receive huge files while saving bandwidth at the same time. Yet they are looking at it all wrong.

If you have 5000 users in your ISP wanting to download a 700mb movie from the united states without bittorrent, you're going to spend heaps.

Yet if you have 5000 users in your ISP downloading a 700mb movie from the united states with bittorrent, the majority of users will be sending only local traffic which doesn't go through your international gateway. You've saved not just 700MB of traffic, but in essence up to 5000 * 700MB if I'm working it out right.




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  Reply # 63610 13-Mar-2007 17:46
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Yes but then it comes down to what an ISP can and cannot cache. If you just limit the cache to what is 'legal' then probably ok but a general cache that also stores the inappropriate stuff becomes questionable. Now that might be a service idea - a legal cache that proxies for services such as legal BitTorrent. After all it is on my PC it is in the ISP cache, if I what I have is illegal then it is illegal for the ISP.

Anyone know what the NZ legalise (if there is one?) around caches is?




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460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 63612 13-Mar-2007 17:58
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And there lies the problem with applying laws to information.

'Forbidden knowledge' I call it. Because essntially it is. Its data that you're not allowed to see/hear. They attempt to push it out of existence using laws, which we all know - has no effect.

I don't have the answers - I don't know everything (I'm not Q) but its clear that applying silly terms like 'stealing' to computer information doesn't work.


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  Reply # 63634 13-Mar-2007 19:41
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barf: I don't like the way bittorrent and DRM are married in this case. It's like an uncelibate affair of technologies.

The media mafia have no concern for your rights to fair use, this much is obvious. DRM is born from the attitude that piracy is stealing. Piracy is not stealing, it is copying - there is a subtle but important difference the media mafia refuse to acknowledge so as to further the DRM crusade.

Supporting DRM on the OS is not a choice the OS vendor usually makes, and judging from reading Microsoft's blogs DRM is costing Vista a growing number of sales. The sooner big companies like Apple and MS publicise the fact DRM is financially deleterious the better. If the media was accesible, we would buy it, DRM solves nothing. We will all backup our CDs and DVDs no matter what and for years to come because not only is it our right to do so, disks break and get scratched! and storing 700MB XviD instead of 4.7GB of MPEG2 has obvious attractions. DRM has no place in the modern, tech-savvy world.

I know I don't use Windows Media Player, even on Windows, so content publishers using WMP's DRM face the same non-compatability problem anyway. The 'legal' title found on bittorrent.com misleads us to believe we will be fairly able to buy and watch a movie.


I am not standing up for DRM or Microsoft in any way but don't confuse Bittorrent and DRM. Bittorrent (legal) is just a delivery mechanism. It has nothing to do with DRM. The DRM comes into play when you want to play what you downloaded. Interestingly the content the content I purchased and downloaded is also available on Amazon's Unbox service.  This is a pure download (rather than distributed BT download) but I am guessing once you get the file you are faced with the same DRM problem.

I guess for me the outcomes of the exercise were

1.  BT is a fairly decent way to distribute though for the shows I downloaded there was only ever one seed (BT's) and one peer (me) and yet I could sustain up to 200KB/sec download speed
2. DRM is a PITA - won't be buying any more (not to mention the $2.99(US) for renting titles
3. I liked the TV shows I downloaded so have purchased the DVD sets!




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


My Google+ page 

 

 

 

https://plus.google.com/+laurencechiu

 

 


460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 63644 13-Mar-2007 20:47
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Barf understands that bittorrent is legal and is only a protocol.

The point of the last few posts is how the interweb society / media companies /whoever have essentially made bittorrent look like a bad thing.

Barf understands bittorrent & DRM just fine. Its RIAA/MPAA / MS / major telcos that need the boot in the backside.

643 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 63650 13-Mar-2007 21:44

I'm somewhat coming out in defence of Microsoft weblordpepe; I doubt they are making money from DRM as they do not publish music or blockbuster movies, if anything DRM is costing them because of the hordes of confused, DRM-enraged geeks switching to Linux. But, the next generation of Linux-based mobile devices will have DRM too, see the LiMo platform's framework specs. DRM deserves every rotten tomato thrown at it but Microsoft are not nearly as deserving of bollocks as the Media Mafia is.




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