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  Reply # 885185 27-Aug-2013 11:21
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ISP: Ubergroup
Location: Work, Whangarei
ISP Plan: 50/50 Fibre
Connection: Northpower Fibre




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  Reply # 885248 27-Aug-2013 13:36
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DonGould:

I don't understand why VDSL is being speed limited, especially the upload.

I also like to understand how one person here's vdsl is 60mbit download.  I thought that was caped at 50mbit.

In a UFB world, I don't get why Chorus is capping the VDSL and not just making it best effort like ADSL2+ and ADSL1




Just at a guess your with DTS LTD on a asymmetrical VDSL plan? 

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  Reply # 885330 27-Aug-2013 14:53
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ISP: Telecom Xtra
Location: Work, Auckland
ISP Plan: 150GB
Connection: adsl2









 

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  Reply # 885356 27-Aug-2013 15:25
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Dairusire:
DonGould:

I don't understand why VDSL is being speed limited, especially the upload.

I also like to understand how one person here's vdsl is 60mbit download.  I thought that was caped at 50mbit.

In a UFB world, I don't get why Chorus is capping the VDSL and not just making it best effort like ADSL2+ and ADSL1




Just at a guess your with DTS LTD on a asymmetrical VDSL plan? 


No, it's wireless.






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WorldxChange

  Reply # 885456 27-Aug-2013 18:38
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WxC
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UFB




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 885463 27-Aug-2013 18:51
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ISP: Vodafone (TelstraClear)
Location: Home, Hamilton
Plan: FS/FS
Connection: ADSL2+ (over wi-fi)


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  Reply # 885501 27-Aug-2013 19:38
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ISP: TelstraClear/Vodafone
Location: ChCh
Plan: 100Mbs or something
Connection: InHome fibre

These are my tests from last night (down/up Mbps)

45/10 (11ms) to Wellington
61/29
46/10
The above were using normal speed test. The following were using VFs speed test site.

123.36/10.5 (6ms) Christchurch VF speed test
111/10 (12ms) Wellington VF speed test
96/10 (29ms) Auckland VF speed test

I found the VF speed test just seems to report the local fibre loop speed, but going off-net to a server using seems to give more consistent numbers that feel more real world.




Software Engineer

 


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  Reply # 885554 27-Aug-2013 20:58
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Talkiet:
sbiddle:[snip]
There are a couple of reasons why upload is capped at 10Mbps, with spectrum management playing a part.



I Honestly* don't know why you keep saying this on here - there's only 5 readers who understand what it is and why it's important and no-one else seems interested.

Cheers - N

* - no, not honestly, something else, maybe exasperatedly, maybe sarcastically... not really sure.
 


It's nice to know I'm part of a special group then!.... the folk who are interested.

I remember when ADSL came out.  People on boards like this one talked about how the whole phone network would crash and the sky would fall because of cross talk.  Yet here we are today with uncapped ADSL2+ speeds and the sky has not fallen.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that some of this has to do with careful management buy techs, doesn't escape me.

But I still don't get why we keep allocating more resource to download than up load.

Personally I'd like 75/75 on my hfc rather than 130/10 because it makes pushing stuff at the cloud faster.

More and more I'm all about backing stuff up to somewhere else.

I use CrashPlan and it backs up gigs each day.  Currently I'm not pushing much off site, but that really is where I want to be.






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  Reply # 885559 27-Aug-2013 21:10
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DonGould:But I still don't get why we keep allocating more resource to download than up load.



Because for the vast majority of residential users, the vast majority of their traffic is downstream. It makes far more sense to offer, say, 50/10 connections to users who are going to have 75% of their usage downstream, than to offer them 30/30 and have them complain about slowness. There are options for symmetrical connections if you need them, though. Or, heck, get a 100/50 fibre connection. Cheap as chips and plenty fast.




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  Reply # 885560 27-Aug-2013 21:12
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But if you looked at your overall usage pattern I'm sure you'll find that the ratio of down vs up traffic is similar to your ratio of down vs up speed. This will be the same for 95% of all residential users.

I'm not suggesting that's a reason why not to have higher upload speeds as an option though. Options are good.

I wouldn't worry too much about Niel's comments, most ISPs think their customers are idiots when it comes to networking, and they're generally right.


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  Reply # 885561 27-Aug-2013 21:14
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insane:
I wouldn't worry too much about Niel's comments, most ISPs think their customers are idiots when it comes to networking, and they're generally right.



Most people in general are idiots when it comes to anything :P




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  Reply # 885599 27-Aug-2013 22:09
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insane: But if you looked at your overall usage pattern I'm sure you'll find that the ratio of down vs up traffic is similar to your ratio of down vs up speed. This will be the same for 95% of all residential users.

I'm not suggesting that's a reason why not to have higher upload speeds as an option though. Options are good.

I wouldn't worry too much about Niel's comments, most ISPs think their customers are idiots when it comes to networking, and they're generally right.



lol.... I never 'worry' about Neils comments.

But I'm always very interested to hear what he has to say.

I get that he's just a grumpy old Telecom/NZGPO tech...  but his ill feeling about his stock price doesn't mean I'm any less interested to hear what he's got to say. ;)

I simply continue to question the upload issue because we're moving forward with technology.

I think you're right about traditional usage, I don't disagree.

But is this a horse and cart question?  Are users used to upload being so slow that they simply don't attempt to use apps that benefit from upload, such as more online backing up?

How often do we read about people who've lost all their photos?  Why aren't people trying harder to use online back up?

I wonder if it's because they just can't back stuff up in a 'reasonable' time?

I know I still haven't found a solution to this question that I like.  I liked CrashPlan, but it seemed to go commercial and not include a free option any more.  The CrashPlan software also seems to use a lot of resource on my netbook.

This makes me wonder if we're missing out on lots of opportunities from consumers because we don't have a great bit of software for Windows and the ability to upload the data.

I'd also like a little appliance that I could put on my network, like a NAS (but not) that I could plug a USB drive into, that could catch my changed files from my devices and then just push them to my back up server (which might be a NAS at my mums place), but I've yet to find a sensible product that I like.  Ideally such a solution would grab files off my android as well.  My phone is just so 'not backed up' when it comes to photos and videos.

/ramble.




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  Reply # 885638 28-Aug-2013 03:59
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ISP: Telecom
Connection: ADSL2+ ("overclocked")
Location: Home, Western Springs
Plan: 500gb
Connection Type: Upload speed Sucks

Modem stats:

DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel:
DSL Upstream Rate: 1029 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 16575 Kbps

 ...............................Down.............up 
DSL Noise Margin:......6.4 dB...........12.6 dB 
DSL Attenuation:........26.0 dB.........13.9 dB 
DSL Transmit Power:..18.9 dBm.......12.4 dBm




Sorry about my English guys :>

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  Reply # 885651 28-Aug-2013 07:58
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DonGould: I think you're right about traditional usage, I don't disagree.

But is this a horse and cart question?  Are users used to upload being so slow that they simply don't attempt to use apps that benefit from upload, such as more online backing up?


I don't believe so, because the usage stats even for countries and connection types where higher upload speeds have been fairly common for the past few years, are still heavily skewed towards download usage. Now, yes, upload *quantities* have risen, but not proportionately to download quantities, given the increase in streaming media use etc. So yes, we need increasing upload speeds (that's something VDSL & Fibre bring), but at this stage it's still not, for most users, beneficial to sacrifice downstream speed in order to give symmetrical upstream. As above, there are options available if you need symmetrical speeds, they're just far less common - and as a result, may be relatively more expensive. That part is just an unfortunate effect of being in a small market.

Look at the US, there are fibre providers offering speeds up to 500/100 on their top end residential plans.

Heck, we have a 100/100 symmetrical fibre installed at work, because in theory we do a lot of upstream traffic - and we do - but it still only accounts for 1/3 of our total usage.

No, I think the big reason most people don't do offsite backups etc is simply because they choose not to, either by not knowing how, or not even knowing they can, or they simply can't be bothered.




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  Reply # 885656 28-Aug-2013 08:14
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DonGould:
But I still don't get why we keep allocating more resource to download than up load.




Maybe because the internet is a asymmetrical place and ultimately always will be?

There isn't much anybody here on GZ can do about this - we're not the people creating standards. If you really want to know the answers to your questions you need to understand the technologies, because continually making comments like that shows you don't.

There are also fundamental issues that can't be easily overcome. In the GPON world for example downstream can be delivered essentially in a broadcast manner to all ONTs, whereas upstream has to use TDMA from each ONT to avoid clashes of each ONT trying to transmit at the same time. This means upstream will always be less than downstream. If you look at wireless you have the problem that TCP performance will always suffer significantly because WiFi is a half duplex medium which is why you'll (for example) only get 40Mbps TCP on your home router but can get 80Mbps UDP.





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