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Topic # 128940 28-Aug-2013 23:54
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Basically the ADSL disconnects every time the phone rings or someone makes a call, and quite often just randomly for anywhere from 5 - 20 minutes or more until the router is restarted. We were using the Vodafone Huawei router but replaced it with a spare Netgear DGN2000 which seems to be faster, reconnect sooner after a call ends and reduced the number of random disconnections, but the same problems exist which points me towards the house wiring or another issue.

These are the router statistics currently which are very consistent in terms of speed and attenuation (sorry for the format):

System Up Time 28:59:45
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 144451 176274 0 3087 12841 02:44:58
LAN 10M/100M 53637 0 0 110 0 28:59:42
WLAN 11M/54M/270M 1392297 1022992 0 11774 1947 28:59:17

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 13202 kbps 984 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 db 5.5 db
Noise Margin 14.1 db 13.2 db

Somebody used the phone a few hours ago hence PPPoA restarted which happens every time. The other day I opened the unused jack in the hallway and this increased the attenuation to 27/30db, halved the upload and reduced the download rate. It wasn't until I opened it again (thinking I may have done something with the wires) and rechecked the stats that it went back to normal.

We don't have a proper demarc point, the lead in cable comes up in a garden and through the holes in the foundation. Above this in the corner of the lounge is a surface mounted BT jack which has the modem and a cordless phone plugged into it through a filter and there is another jack in the hallway on the opposite side of the lounge. I can get a dial tone out of the one in the hallway and, if I remember correctly, both only have one pair of two used and one cable present in each of the boxes so I am guessing there is a splice or join somewhere underneath the house.

Here is the unused jack, the connector/face plate part was apparently replaced recently due to corrosion or gunk on the contacts although this didn't appear to improve anything.


And the lead in cable (because why not as such a small file size anyway?):


Sorry if this post is very long, tried to explain it all simply, if you need to know anything just ask I might have left it out due to tiredness.  Chur guys.

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  Reply # 886273 28-Aug-2013 23:54
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  Reply # 886295 29-Aug-2013 05:51
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Phones will only drop if you don't have xDSL filter(s) in place.

Ideally everybody who had a xDSL connection should have a professionally installed master filter. If you don't have one of these you need a plug in filter on every phone or device in the home (except for the modem itself). You presumably don't have this.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 886307 29-Aug-2013 06:46
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Intravix: We don't have a proper demarc point, the lead in cable comes up in a garden and through the holes in the foundation.


This is not uncommon. Sometimes there is no ETP. My post assumes you have filters attached at each jackpoint already:

Have your modem connected and working - ensure there is a filter to the modem. Check that this filter is working correctly by having only the modem in question and the filter installed. Leave every other phone in the house unplugged and call your landline to make sure incoming calls aren't making it drop.

What you'll want to do next is phone by phone add each back on with it's filter to make sure that your phones aren't causing the disruption and that their filters aren't faulty.

I had a similar issue years ago with a faulty filter - it turned out incoming or outgoing calls wouldn't make the modem drop until the phone was hung up - the changing line voltage would probaby be what's doing it - that's why the filter's needed.

Also, check that you don't have a house alarm - an unfiltered house alarm can do the same thing as a phone. It's modem will occassionally dial out and drop the DSL. You can put a filter on it yourself if you're confident, but you might want to call the alarm company first in case the box has a trigger on it.

Many variables, but you want to isolate and prove the cause of the fault to a single location if possible.

Let me know how you get on -

Cheers,

Waata
(A telecommunications technician)



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  Reply # 886317 29-Aug-2013 07:56
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sbiddle: Phones will only drop if you don't have xDSL filter(s) in place.

Ideally everybody who had a xDSL connection should have a professionally installed master filter. If you don't have one of these you need a plug in filter on every phone or device in the home (except for the modem itself). You presumably don't have this.


The phone and modem are plugged into the first jack through a plug in filter, which has been replaced a couple of times with the same issues.  The other jack isn't used at all so it doesn't need a filter just dangling out of the socket does it?

Waata: Have your modem connected and working - ensure there is a filter to the modem. Check that this filter is working correctly by having only the modem in question and the filter installed. Leave every other phone in the house unplugged and call your landline to make sure incoming calls aren't making it drop.

What you'll want to do next is phone by phone add each back on with it's filter to make sure that your phones aren't causing the disruption and that their filters aren't faulty.


I tried to isolate it before but couldn't have the phone off all day to check if it goes down randomly, didn't think of calling without any phones being plugged in.  There's only the one phone as above, I might try putting this in the other jack and calling in/out.

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  Reply # 886336 29-Aug-2013 09:08
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Waata: Have your modem connected and working - ensure there is a filter to the modem.

Surely you don't mean he should filter his modem?

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  Reply # 886338 29-Aug-2013 09:15
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linw:
 Waata: Have your modem connected and working - ensure there is a filter to the modem.


Surely you don't mean he should filter his modem?


Why not... Phones and modems both need to be connected to a filter.




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  Reply # 886340 29-Aug-2013 09:27
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andrewNZ:
linw:
 Waata: Have your modem connected and working - ensure there is a filter to the modem.


Surely you don't mean he should filter his modem?


Why not... Phones and modems both need to be connected to a filter.


A modem is never filtered. If you have a plug in filter than has a modem + phone jack it's only the voice section that is affected by the LPF.


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  Reply # 886344 29-Aug-2013 09:29
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Huh... OK.

I'd go looking for that join under the house, make sure someone hasn't done a boogy job on it, and make sure there are only 3 cables joined there (1 in, 2 out). If there's more, you need to find out where they go, one might be hanging in the dirt or something. The connections should be done with wee plastic crimps full of gunk, if there is a strip connector, that's not flash.

Otherwise, try ringing in with no phones connected at all. Does it drop out?
If it does, you need to contact your provider. It could be a dodgy cable, or a problem at the cabinet, either way, you aren't going to find it.

If it doesn't, try a different phone and try the other jack.




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  Reply # 886345 29-Aug-2013 09:31
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andrewNZ:

Why not... Phones and modems both need to be connected to a filter.


In a basic DSL filter, the modem connection is just a passthrough, only the phone connections are filtered. So no, the modem doesn't 'need' to be connected to a filter (and should not be). A master splitter is always the best idea though ;)




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  Reply # 886399 29-Aug-2013 10:54
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Your lead-in has been chopped in to somewhere under the house.

If that black cable appears only at that one jack and there is nothing else joined to the jack then it has been hacked in to under the floor.

Get a pro in to sort it out. If you are Auckland/Waikato area PM coffeebaron on here.

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  Reply # 886433 29-Aug-2013 11:42
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Inphinity:
andrewNZ:

Why not... Phones and modems both need to be connected to a filter.


In a basic DSL filter, the modem connection is just a passthrough, only the phone connections are filtered. So no, the modem doesn't 'need' to be connected to a filter (and should not be). A master splitter is always the best idea though ;)


Yep, I installed a master splitter, fixed up all the aerial wiring, and networked my house the same week I moved in.





Location: Dunedin



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  Reply # 886716 29-Aug-2013 19:37
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Cheers guys, I was holding off going under the house because its yucky lol.  I did think there may be a bad connection or cable underneath so I'll be interested to find out what it is.  If I was to install a master filter, where would be best considering there isn't a proper demarc point?

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  Reply # 886735 29-Aug-2013 20:29
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If I was to install a master filter, where would be best considering there isn't a proper demarc point?


Where the cable is split off and run cat5e /6 to your Dedicated jack for your modem.

I would suggest getting in a pro if you're not 100% confident with wiring as if a hack job of the split has been done on the line in you may run into other issues. 

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  Reply # 886753 29-Aug-2013 20:45
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I Had this very same issue.
We were on VF... and this issue started to happen and got worse.

In the end, its now fixed...

1) It wasnt my modem and I did have a master splitter installed
2) PPP kept dropping then after awhile the actual DSL would reset (the chorus guys also witnessed this).
3) Chorus swaped over the pair comming to the house from the cabinet
4) Same problem... tried several modems....same problem.
5) Chorus checked all the jacks in the house, dissconnected a few as well and replaced the master filter.

In the end the problem is gone but only because I still have to use plug in filters everywhere STILL !
Mr Chorus gave be a bundle of cable and some scotchlocs and said 'here, you will have to run this from your RTP to that DSL jack yourself (because it was a hard job and I havent even been able to set aside time or figure out a way to do this myself as well (complicated walls and celings from the garage ETP to the DSL jack half way through the house)). The house really needs new wiring IN STAR !

Edit: forgot to mention Chorus also found a dodgy port/card in the cabinet and replaced this also.  I think I was also a victim of being on the wrong profile as well which may have started this whole process ! 



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  Reply # 886783 29-Aug-2013 22:45
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boby55:
If I was to install a master filter, where would be best considering there isn't a proper demarc point?


Where the cable is split off and run cat5e /6 to your Dedicated jack for your modem.

I would suggest getting in a pro if you're not 100% confident with wiring as if a hack job of the split has been done on the line in you may run into other issues.


Alright I'll probably install it in a box, attach it to a joist and run CAT6 to a double RJ45 above. I shall be okay carrying it out, I'm pretty confident I can do it properly.

Goosey: I Had this very same issue.
We were on VF... and this issue started to happen and got worse.

In the end, its now fixed...

1) It wasnt my modem and I did have a master splitter installed
2) PPP kept dropping then after awhile the actual DSL would reset (the chorus guys also witnessed this).
3) Chorus swaped over the pair comming to the house from the cabinet
4) Same problem... tried several modems....same problem.
5) Chorus checked all the jacks in the house, dissconnected a few as well and replaced the master filter.

In the end the problem is gone but only because I still have to use plug in filters everywhere STILL !
Mr Chorus gave be a bundle of cable and some scotchlocs and said 'here, you will have to run this from your RTP to that DSL jack yourself (because it was a hard job and I havent even been able to set aside time or figure out a way to do this myself as well (complicated walls and celings from the garage ETP to the DSL jack half way through the house)). The house really needs new wiring IN STAR !

Edit: forgot to mention Chorus also found a dodgy port/card in the cabinet and replaced this also.  I think I was also a victim of being on the wrong profile as well which may have started this whole process ! 


So it was disconnecting the jacks and replacing the master filter that fixed it?  Your setup sounds like a pain, but can't you just use the existing DSL jack from where the old master filter was installed?

By the way what usually makes PPP stop working randomly or when the phone rings?  Just interference and reflection from other jacks?

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