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1316 posts

Uber Geek


  # 891173 7-Sep-2013 00:18
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it'd be funny if some other LFC jumped in before them and said "we can already do this"





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  # 891329 7-Sep-2013 15:46
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hamish225: it'd be funny if some other LFC jumped in before them and said "we can already do this"

I've seen unconstrained UltraFastFibre connections go about ~600Mbps (basic speedtest). It'd be the multiple customers at this speed requiring the backhaul/GPON system needing to be upgraded. And of course the rest of the chain to the RSP and beyond being prepared for it too.

 
 
 
 


671 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 891609 8-Sep-2013 12:46
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Hmm, this article says it will be available for everyone (in Chorus' areas), not just "Gigatown", but at a higher price than the chosen "Gigatown":

While only one town – or part of a larger town – will get Chorus’ gigabit service at an entry level price, the faster internet service will be available throughout urban New Zealand.


Does anyone know if that will be at the same time as "Gigatown" or at some [un]known point in the future? Would also be interesting to know what the price will be (given they've already mentioned the wholesale price for the town).

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Ultimate Geek


  # 892557 10-Sep-2013 10:42
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Nice little write up on this plan. I think it highlights some of the issues people here have with this promotion.

http://tuanz.org.nz/blog/2013/9/5/gigatown

In addition it is disappointing it is only going to be for residential connections when for it to really benefit a community it really does need to be available to the small business users. While it will indeed help many independent contractors they are only a small part of small town's economy. Of course in our particular town the proposed UFB zone only covers a small area and most of the people who could really benefit from the faster speeds actually live just outside of town and will never see fibre run to their house. So yes the prospect of gigabit speed is indeed very nice but the whole thing feels like we are still just being given some scraps to distract us and make a lucky few of us feel nice.

That being said if a plan is floated in our community to compete for this I will be supporting it in any way I can. I am not really in a position to lead such an effort myself however.

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  # 892800 10-Sep-2013 15:57
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Varkk: Nice little write up on this plan. I think it highlights some of the issues people here have with this promotion. http://tuanz.org.nz/blog/2013/9/5/gigatown ...

They assume this gigatown will be synchronous, but I've yet to see plans for upload speeds (or am I blind?)

The entry level price point is on par with copper and the entry level speed is on par with copper so why on earth would I shift over?

Exactly. Heck VDSL could do faster for some, and there are advantages to POTS telephones over VoIP. E.g. it was the only service we had for nearly a month after the Feb quake, I doubt I could keep a ups going for a month.


I wonder if this is really about getting a whole town to take up UFB really quickly, so that Chorus can post high per user copper costs and get the comcom to let them up copper charges for everyone.

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Master Geek


  # 895008 12-Sep-2013 23:43
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You can do 1Gbps synchronus over the PON. The bandwidth of the standard PON SFP in the current deployment is 2.5Gbps down and 1.25Gbps up, hence the asynchronus nature of the res UFB (Bitstream 2) offerings. Bitstream 4 connections will go to 1Gbps if you're willing to pay. If you're willing to pay more you can have 10Gbps. Bitstream 3 / 3a connections are a little more limited as they are supplied through the splitters that the general Bitstream 2 offerings are delivered by. Higher capacity is available if you are lighting the fibre yourself, pumping multiple wavelengths down the same fibre using WDM.
What they are offering is a slight deviation from the general deployment. I'm all for it, if a small town can enhance its local commerce through having FAT pipes then so be it, hopefully it starts a trend! :)

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 895075 13-Sep-2013 08:17
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Stryfe: ... I'm all for it, if a small town can enhance its local commerce through having FAT pipes then so be it, hopefully it starts a trend! :)

This is the part I don't get though, it seems to be aimed at residential. Intended or not they're encouraging people to seek out ways to utilise higher bandwidth in a residential setting, and so encourage the rest of the country to want it to; and that's not about commerce at all. And why wouldn't this be part of Choruses goals here? They are after all a private company in this for their own profit.

[edit] To be clear, I feel that this is similar to if McDonalds asked the country to design them a new burger, I don't feel that this is about economic stimulation other than for chorus.

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Biddle Corp
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  # 895081 13-Sep-2013 08:27
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eXDee:
hamish225: it'd be funny if some other LFC jumped in before them and said "we can already do this"

I've seen unconstrained UltraFastFibre connections go about ~600Mbps (basic speedtest). It'd be the multiple customers at this speed requiring the backhaul/GPON system needing to be upgraded. And of course the rest of the chain to the RSP and beyond being prepared for it too.


The "bottleneck" (if you want to call it that) is the 2.4Gbps / 1.2Gbps downstream and upstream limitations of GPON. CFH followed best practice in specifying a 24 way optical splitter so 100Mbps can be delivered to each connection uncontended. As you increase speeds above 100Mbps you start to introduce contention on a OLT port if it's fully loaded with 24 subscribers.

I had heard some speculation a few months ago that Chorus were keen to trial ALU 10GPON kit, one would have to assume that this initiative would be 10GPON as the contention on GPON wouldn't be a pretty sight moving forward if people started to max out their connections!

It would be interesting to know what some bigger ISPs think of this - it introduces massive backhaul requirements by offering such high speed services.



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  # 895124 13-Sep-2013 10:51
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Nice, I didn't realise that CFH ensured that 100/50 would be uncontested like that. I assume that 2.4 Gbit/s / 1.2 Gbit/s link heads back to the exchange/handover also uncontested? From there it would all depend on the ISP's backhaul, correct?

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  # 895128 13-Sep-2013 11:25
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1080p: Nice, I didn't realise that CFH ensured that 100/50 would be uncontested like that. I assume that 2.4 Gbit/s / 1.2 Gbit/s link heads back to the exchange/handover also uncontested? From there it would all depend on the ISP's backhaul, correct?


Pretty much. The only thing that should be guaranteed back to the ISP is the CIR high priority queue traffic, but how ISPs go about dimensioning their backhaul is entirely up to them.




134 posts

Master Geek


  # 895155 13-Sep-2013 12:23
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sbiddle: CFH followed best practice in specifying a 24 way optical splitter so 100Mbps can be delivered to each connection uncontended. As you increase speeds above 100Mbps you start to introduce contention on a OLT port if it's fully loaded with 24 subscribers.


Having looked through the CFH documentation I haven't found this requirement for a maximum of 1:24 split. All that I can find is that a LFC has to deliver 100/50 with a maximum of 2% packet drop. On a GPON service this would translate to a 1:24 split if every end user used it to capacity at the same time - but I don't see anythig that prevents an LFC from putting more than 24 users on a splitter and using statistical predictions to provide meet the SLA.

Can someone point me to where the 1:24 splitter is mandatory?

138 posts

Master Geek


  # 900910 23-Sep-2013 00:16
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Varkk: Nice little write up on this plan. I think it highlights some of the issues people here have with this promotion.

http://tuanz.org.nz/blog/2013/9/5/gigatown

In addition it is disappointing it is only going to be for residential connections when for it to really benefit a community it really does need to be available to the small business users. While it will indeed help many independent contractors they are only a small part of small town's economy. Of course in our particular town the proposed UFB zone only covers a small area and most of the people who could really benefit from the faster speeds actually live just outside of town and will never see fibre run to their house. So yes the prospect of gigabit speed is indeed very nice but the whole thing feels like we are still just being given some scraps to distract us and make a lucky few of us feel nice.

That being said if a plan is floated in our community to compete for this I will be supporting it in any way I can. I am not really in a position to lead such an effort myself however.



I agree with Varkk....... we wont be getting UFB here in Tuakau ( as alot of other small towns in NZ) so will have to watch from the bushes.......    small businesses need to be included  aka all possible users in the town they choose in 2 years or so...then you can see all the possible creative outcomes from this....

Unfortunately in my view,  as they have limited the possible users it sounds more like a limited "spin" project for NZ rather than a balls all out one for gigatown in NZ...Rgds.....Laurie

Mr Snotty
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  # 900913 23-Sep-2013 00:24
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sbiddle:
eXDee:
hamish225: it'd be funny if some other LFC jumped in before them and said "we can already do this"

I've seen unconstrained UltraFastFibre connections go about ~600Mbps (basic speedtest). It'd be the multiple customers at this speed requiring the backhaul/GPON system needing to be upgraded. And of course the rest of the chain to the RSP and beyond being prepared for it too.


The "bottleneck" (if you want to call it that) is the 2.4Gbps / 1.2Gbps downstream and upstream limitations of GPON. CFH followed best practice in specifying a 24 way optical splitter so 100Mbps can be delivered to each connection uncontended. As you increase speeds above 100Mbps you start to introduce contention on a OLT port if it's fully loaded with 24 subscribers.

I had heard some speculation a few months ago that Chorus were keen to trial ALU 10GPON kit, one would have to assume that this initiative would be 10GPON as the contention on GPON wouldn't be a pretty sight moving forward if people started to max out their connections!

It would be interesting to know what some bigger ISPs think of this - it introduces massive backhaul requirements by offering such high speed services.


This screams to me as the next Conklin,

In 10 years time will we see congestion issues on Fibre due to the fact the backbone (fibre too) doesn't have enough capacity to support the subscribers? Shall we place bets on when the first Geekzone post will be and what it's title will also be?




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  # 900979 23-Sep-2013 08:52
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michaelmurfy:
sbiddle:
eXDee:
hamish225: it'd be funny if some other LFC jumped in before them and said "we can already do this"

I've seen unconstrained UltraFastFibre connections go about ~600Mbps (basic speedtest). It'd be the multiple customers at this speed requiring the backhaul/GPON system needing to be upgraded. And of course the rest of the chain to the RSP and beyond being prepared for it too.


The "bottleneck" (if you want to call it that) is the 2.4Gbps / 1.2Gbps downstream and upstream limitations of GPON. CFH followed best practice in specifying a 24 way optical splitter so 100Mbps can be delivered to each connection uncontended. As you increase speeds above 100Mbps you start to introduce contention on a OLT port if it's fully loaded with 24 subscribers.

I had heard some speculation a few months ago that Chorus were keen to trial ALU 10GPON kit, one would have to assume that this initiative would be 10GPON as the contention on GPON wouldn't be a pretty sight moving forward if people started to max out their connections!

It would be interesting to know what some bigger ISPs think of this - it introduces massive backhaul requirements by offering such high speed services.


This screams to me as the next Conklin,

In 10 years time will we see congestion issues on Fibre due to the fact the backbone (fibre too) doesn't have enough capacity to support the subscribers? Shall we place bets on when the first Geekzone post will be and what it's title will also be?


I don't think that's really a fair comparison with Conklins - the reason for their contention was that the physical backhaul (copper) was juiced for all it could be, and it wasn't cost effective to run fibre to rural cabinets.

With GPON, we already have fibre in the ground, if contention gets too bad then the LFC just need to upgrade the active gear at each end to 10Gig, 100Gig, etc - a much cheaper proposition than trenching into the middle of nowhere. How the LFCs plan for this is another question, but it'd be a pretty big fail if they don't see this coming.

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