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Mr Snotty
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  # 930339 10-Nov-2013 18:33
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techmeister: 
The thing is from the point of view of an end uniformed user you can see that it is difficult to understand why other ISP's that have their own gear in the exchange,  can do annex M and yet Chorus cannot, all I started this thread for was to find out why that is the case.
So to that end I will tell all my business customers and anyone else that if you are hooked up to exchange you should go with Callplus or Slingshot problem solved end of story.


Things cost money. No point putting a DSLAM in a cabinet / exchange at a cost of approx $10,000 if it's only serving a few customers now is it? Most people don't care about Annex M also.




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  # 930345 10-Nov-2013 18:59
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Talkiet: Annex M isn't an attractive investment to Chorus? Simply put there's zero chance they'll ever make back the investment of building the capability. I speak from a position of having a reasonable idea of what it would take to do it too.

Cheers - N



That what i said before: managers said - it's not profitable, we will not do it. lol :)


But wait, one question for you, what kind of investment? WHAT?! I'm pretty sure that current chorus equipment are supporting AnnexM connection, because it's a part of ADSL2+ technology, this mode included even in cheapest routers and DSLAM cards. 

Now we can see that it is not technical problem (even "crosstalk" is not a problem, it is just a "cover fake reason" for your managers)...  

There is no real problems. 




Sorry about my English guys :>

 
 
 
 


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  # 930346 10-Nov-2013 19:02
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Kirdog:
Talkiet: Annex M isn't an attractive investment to Chorus? Simply put there's zero chance they'll ever make back the investment of building the capability. I speak from a position of having a reasonable idea of what it would take to do it too.

Cheers - N



That what i said before: managers said - it's not profitable, we will not do it. lol :)


But 1 question, what investment? WHAT?! I'm pretty sure that current chorus equipment are supporting AnnexM connection, because it's a part of ADSL2+ technology, this mode included even in cheapest routers and DSLAM cards. 

Now we can see that it is not technical problem (even "crosstalk" is not a problem, it is just a "cover fake reason" for your managers)...  


Please provide support to back up your statement that cross talk is a cover fake reason.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 930347 10-Nov-2013 19:04
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http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=133863&page_no=1#927947




Sorry about my English guys :>

Mr Snotty
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  # 930348 10-Nov-2013 19:05
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KiwiNZ:
Kirdog:
Talkiet: Annex M isn't an attractive investment to Chorus? Simply put there's zero chance they'll ever make back the investment of building the capability. I speak from a position of having a reasonable idea of what it would take to do it too.

Cheers - N



That what i said before: managers said - it's not profitable, we will not do it. lol :)


But 1 question, what investment? WHAT?! I'm pretty sure that current chorus equipment are supporting AnnexM connection, because it's a part of ADSL2+ technology, this mode included even in cheapest routers and DSLAM cards. 

Now we can see that it is not technical problem (even "crosstalk" is not a problem, it is just a "cover fake reason" for your managers)...  


Please provide support to back up your statement that cross talk is a cover fake reason.


If you're questioning Neil you really don't know what you're talking about. Since I know what he does in Telecom you should stop here.




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  # 930350 10-Nov-2013 19:07
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Kirdog: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=133863&page_no=1#927947


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

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  # 930352 10-Nov-2013 19:09
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Kirdog:
Talkiet: Annex M isn't an attractive investment to Chorus? Simply put there's zero chance they'll ever make back the investment of building the capability. I speak from a position of having a reasonable idea of what it would take to do it too.

Cheers - N


[snip]

But wait, one question for you, what kind of investment? WHAT?! I'm pretty sure that current chorus equipment are supporting AnnexM connection, because it's a part of ADSL2+ technology, this mode included even in cheapest routers and DSLAM cards. 

Now we can see that it is not technical problem (even "crosstalk" is not a problem, it is just a "cover fake reason" for your managers)...  

There is no real problems. 


I've worked for several years in the industry, and have extensive experience in costing and designing services and solutions in both the old integrated Telecom environment and the new separated environment.

You clearly don't have a clue what it takes to design and implement a service at a telco level if you think that just because (some) of the DSLAMs have hardware support, it will not be expensive to develop the supporting systems, and support structures.

You're going to have to work pretty hard to convince me that you have a better idea about what it would take to develop and offer the service than I do.

You're right, it's not a technical problem - but your gibe about crosstalk being a 'cover fake reason' further illustrates your real level of knowledge about the technology domain.

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


 
 
 
 


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  # 930353 10-Nov-2013 19:10
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Than explain why some providers can switch on AnnexM, and it will no affect others? Does this providers running separate phone lines of what?




Sorry about my English guys :>

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  # 930354 10-Nov-2013 19:16
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RunningMan:
Kirdog: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=133863&page_no=1#927947


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience


Your support = 0




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 930355 10-Nov-2013 19:19
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Kirdog: Than explain why some providers can switch on AnnexM, and it will no affect others? Does this providers running separate phone lines of what?


Lower quality control interest




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 930359 10-Nov-2013 19:23
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Kirdog: Than explain why some providers can switch on AnnexM, and it will no affect others? Does this providers running separate phone lines of what?


Far end cross talk isn't so much of an issue when you only have a very small number of customers using it.


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# 930360 10-Nov-2013 19:24
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KiwiNZ:
RunningMan:
Kirdog: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=133863&page_no=1#927947


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience


Your support = 0


Fail, 

I don't care, i can see the facts, thats why this argument still alive. 

I will exit this forum, if someone will clear explain me, how actual LLU providers connect customers with annexM. Do they run separate cable from other exchange? Or what they do to make it possible, how they solves crosstalk problem? Because i have saw 2 locations with annexA and annexM connections via 1 multicore cable, and if you say that crosstalk is an serious issue, then how they can be connected? I'm confused now. 





Sorry about my English guys :>

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  # 930362 10-Nov-2013 19:27
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sbiddle:
Kirdog: Than explain why some providers can switch on AnnexM, and it will no affect others? Does this providers running separate phone lines of what?


Far end cross talk isn't so much of an issue when you only have a very small number of customers using it.



Hm, but it is still possible to use? Well that's an answer for me, but the key word: it is still possible, number of connections is other story, and it is important.  

Thank you sbiddle.




Sorry about my English guys :>

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  # 930364 10-Nov-2013 19:35
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Kirdog:
sbiddle:
Kirdog: Than explain why some providers can switch on AnnexM, and it will no affect others? Does this providers running separate phone lines of what?


Far end cross talk isn't so much of an issue when you only have a very small number of customers using it.



Hm, but it is still possible to use? Well that's an answer for me, but the key word: it is still possible, number of connections is other story, and it is important.  

Thank you sbiddle.


Your question has already been answered. There are providers who are using Annex M on their ULL networks. This works because there are very small numbers of customers on Annex M.

Since you don't believe far end crosstalk exists there is no point in telling you read up about it, but until you do you're never going to actually understand why we keep giving you the same answer every few months when you bring this issue up.

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  # 930365 10-Nov-2013 19:36
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Kirdog:
KiwiNZ:
RunningMan:
Kirdog: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=133863&page_no=1#927947


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience


Your support = 0


Fail, 

I don't care, i can see the facts, thats why this argument still alive. 

I will exit this forum, if someone will clear explain me, how actual LLU providers connect customers with annexM. Do they run separate cable from other exchange? Or what they do to make it possible, how they solves crosstalk problem? Because i have saw 2 locations with annexA and annexM connections via 1 multicore cable, and if you say that crosstalk is an serious issue, then how they can be connected? I'm confused now. 



The answer is simple. FEXT (Far end crosstalk).





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