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Coil
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  #966511 13-Jan-2014 22:45
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Stan: I live on the edge of a small town with a population less than 6000 people and I get 50Mbit down and 10Mbit up for around the same price aus gets for an ADSL 1 connection.
internet in NZ is amazing value for money all things considered


It is. But the media and wank offs have nothing better to do than complain! We are a country of 4 million dont forget!

NZtimbo
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  #966942 14-Jan-2014 16:21
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As a user in a rural community with almost 300 families on a conjested ADSL1 BUBA (not conklin though) exchange and already having had fibre installed down the main street past our exchange to the school I'll put my two cents worth in.

I have no problem with the price I pay, more than urban, or the 200G cap each month that we are blowing away quite easily...

I do however have a problem with the deteriation in level of service and STILL not knowing when/if we will have any form of UPGRADE. Overnight speeds saturate my ADSL1 link as much as it can go but peak evening speeds drop to roughly 15-20% of what my line rate will handle.

There are fewer families hanging of another exchange down the road that are on the ADSL2 service already.

Investment in areas that an accountant doesn't see econimic sense doesn't mean the service should be allowed to deteriate to a point where with newer services avalible on the interwebz we rural users can only look on in bewilderment and get frustrated.

I'd love to pay more, but without knowing when/what type of service we will end up with it doesn't make econimic sense for me to pay more.

Tim

Lorenceo
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  #966952 14-Jan-2014 16:39
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Stan: I live on the edge of a small town with a population less than 6000 people and I get 50Mbit down and 10Mbit up for around the same price aus gets for an ADSL 1 connection.
internet in NZ is amazing value for money all things considered

Not everyone is lucky enough to be close to a cabinet unfortunately.



Coil
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  #966973 14-Jan-2014 17:05
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NZtimbo: As a user in a rural community with almost 300 families on a conjested ADSL1 BUBA (not conklin though) exchange and already having had fibre installed down the main street past our exchange to the school I'll put my two cents worth in.

I have no problem with the price I pay, more than urban, or the 200G cap each month that we are blowing away quite easily...

I do however have a problem with the deteriation in level of service and STILL not knowing when/if we will have any form of UPGRADE. Overnight speeds saturate my ADSL1 link as much as it can go but peak evening speeds drop to roughly 15-20% of what my line rate will handle.

There are fewer families hanging of another exchange down the road that are on the ADSL2 service already.

Investment in areas that an accountant doesn't see econimic sense doesn't mean the service should be allowed to deteriate to a point where with newer services avalible on the interwebz we rural users can only look on in bewilderment and get frustrated.

I'd love to pay more, but without knowing when/what type of service we will end up with it doesn't make econimic sense for me to pay more.

Tim


Hi Tim,

Definitely see what you mean. But an upgrade could mean they need to supply a whole new cabinet with ports costing around $2000+ each for 300 people and a new backhaul. So you can see how this sort of cost makes or breaks. If you are willing to cough up the upgrade costs i am sure the entire community and chorus would love you.

Ragnor
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  #966999 14-Jan-2014 17:45
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TimA: 

Definitely see what you mean. But an upgrade could mean they need to supply a whole new cabinet with ports costing around $2000+ each for 300 people and a new backhaul. So you can see how this sort of cost makes or breaks. If you are willing to cough up the upgrade costs i am sure the entire community and chorus would love you.


Chorus is basically a regulated natural monopoly infrastructure provider of a public good, they get to make supernormal profit off high density areas in exchange for providing service to less dense areas. Where you draw the line on what areas get modern services is very tricky but personally I believe it's been drawn too short.

Consider that the fibre being put it probably has a 50 year lifespan, coverage can be pushed further at higher cost, it will be made back eventually.

This graph was for the Aussie NBN but the NZ one would probably be similar





Technofreak
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  #967027 14-Jan-2014 18:35
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bakewells5856: 

if they actually did put money into upgrading it I would be happy to pay extra, sadly this isnt the case though.


But would that amount extra you are prepared to pay be enough to cover the costs of providing the service?




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michaelmurfy
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  #967033 14-Jan-2014 18:42
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TimA:
NZtimbo: As a user in a rural community with almost 300 families on a conjested ADSL1 BUBA (not conklin though) exchange and already having had fibre installed down the main street past our exchange to the school I'll put my two cents worth in.

I have no problem with the price I pay, more than urban, or the 200G cap each month that we are blowing away quite easily...

I do however have a problem with the deteriation in level of service and STILL not knowing when/if we will have any form of UPGRADE. Overnight speeds saturate my ADSL1 link as much as it can go but peak evening speeds drop to roughly 15-20% of what my line rate will handle.

There are fewer families hanging of another exchange down the road that are on the ADSL2 service already.

Investment in areas that an accountant doesn't see econimic sense doesn't mean the service should be allowed to deteriate to a point where with newer services avalible on the interwebz we rural users can only look on in bewilderment and get frustrated.

I'd love to pay more, but without knowing when/what type of service we will end up with it doesn't make econimic sense for me to pay more.

Tim


Hi Tim,

Definitely see what you mean. But an upgrade could mean they need to supply a whole new cabinet with ports costing around $2000+ each for 300 people and a new backhaul. So you can see how this sort of cost makes or breaks. If you are willing to cough up the upgrade costs i am sure the entire community and chorus would love you.


My parents are on an old cabinet and get epic congestion at night causing their internet to literally drop to dialup speeds (I mean literally), Chorus has no plans to upgrade their cabinet but how they see it is they have a massive farm, the house they've always wanted and they're still able to get internet. If they wanted fast internet they'll have a flash house in a city. You move to these locations because of what is around, but once you're rural you should stop caring about your internet quality or just move.




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Stan
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  #967043 14-Jan-2014 19:01
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Lorenceo:
Stan: I live on the edge of a small town with a population less than 6000 people and I get 50Mbit down and 10Mbit up for around the same price aus gets for an ADSL 1 connection.
internet in NZ is amazing value for money all things considered

Not everyone is lucky enough to be close to a cabinet unfortunately.

 

I should clarify most of the people in this town can get VDSL and if they cant they can get ADSL2, however it is never getting UFB (for the next few years anyway)

For rural users how do services such as lightwire perform?

sbiddle
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  #967057 14-Jan-2014 19:42
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NZtimbo:
I do however have a problem with the deteriation in level of service and STILL not knowing when/if we will have any form of UPGRADE.


What does the Chorus website say? All RBI cabinets have been listed on there for the last few years with the timeframes.


NZtimbo
165 posts

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  #967067 14-Jan-2014 19:57
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sbiddle:
NZtimbo:
I do however have a problem with the deteriation in level of service and STILL not knowing when/if we will have any form of UPGRADE.


What does the Chorus website say? All RBI cabinets have been listed on there for the last few years with the timeframes.



Only gives current network capability, turning on all upgrade layers shows we're in the middle of nowhere, everyone around us gets upgrades...

Through my taxes I'm paying for upgrades I want my upgrades...

Tim

Coil
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  #967079 14-Jan-2014 20:26
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NZtimbo:
sbiddle:
NZtimbo:
I do however have a problem with the deteriation in level of service and STILL not knowing when/if we will have any form of UPGRADE.


What does the Chorus website say? All RBI cabinets have been listed on there for the last few years with the timeframes.



Only gives current network capability, turning on all upgrade layers shows we're in the middle of nowhere, everyone around us gets upgrades...

Through my taxes I'm paying for upgrades I want my upgrades...

Tim


I never knew that taxes went to upgrading the copper network.

What strange taxes you pay?? You sure they are not to some western union bank account?

But in all honesty. If you have such a bad connection and there is a benefit in more than yourself in upgrading your DSL gear. Please take it to you local MP guy thing, Present to them the case and maybe something will happen by 2017-2018. Otherwise. Its your own fault for living there. You want a lifestyle with good internet move to town.

That is virtually the only way we or you can do anything about it. Being the most constructive and proactive way gather signatures and present it. Otherwise you have no right to complain.

Lias
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  #967439 15-Jan-2014 11:10
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We pay too much because our governments are too cowardly to do what needs to be done to ensure NZ consumers get the best infrastructure at a reasonable price.

I've been of the opinion for many many years that the core communications infrastructure (currently I'd say SCC, Chorus, and the largest national ISP (presumably still Telecom)) should be forcibly (re)acquired by the government, and run as entities that aim for a low profit and in any event return all profits to the community rather than shareholders, much like the various power trusts (WEL Energy Trust, Electra Trust, etc etc)

If other companies want to compete against that not for profit default monopoly, let them, competition is good. But let them compete by being trim and lean and keen versus the inevitable bloat of such a structure. The way Chorus and it's shareholders have been having a massive cry is proof that greedy pricks should not be allowed to own the monopoly infrastructure. Chorus should run at a loss for the first decade or two, then return increasing profits over that 50 year lifespan, with it's ROI averaged out to be say 5-8% p.a. over the total 50 year lifetime of the investment. Any company making above average profits on what is effectively a monopoly position should be stomped on, and stomped hard.

My 2 cents

PS: I'm sure I'm turning into some sort of communist as I get older lol.




I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


Klipspringer
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  #967455 15-Jan-2014 11:28
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Lias: We pay too much because our governments are too cowardly to do what needs to be done to ensure NZ consumers get the best infrastructure at a reasonable price.

I've been of the opinion for many many years that the core communications infrastructure (currently I'd say SCC, Chorus, and the largest national ISP (presumably still Telecom)) should be forcibly (re)acquired by the government, and run as entities that aim for a low profit and in any event return all profits to the community rather than shareholders, much like the various power trusts (WEL Energy Trust, Electra Trust, etc etc)

If other companies want to compete against that not for profit default monopoly, let them, competition is good. But let them compete by being trim and lean and keen versus the inevitable bloat of such a structure. The way Chorus and it's shareholders have been having a massive cry is proof that greedy pricks should not be allowed to own the monopoly infrastructure. Chorus should run at a loss for the first decade or two, then return increasing profits over that 50 year lifespan, with it's ROI averaged out to be say 5-8% p.a. over the total 50 year lifetime of the investment. Any company making above average profits on what is effectively a monopoly position should be stomped on, and stomped hard.

My 2 cents

PS: I'm sure I'm turning into some sort of communist as I get older lol.


You should travel a bit more ...
Chorus should run at a loss for a decade or two???

Lias
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  #967567 15-Jan-2014 14:22
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Klipspringer: 
Chorus should run at a loss for a decade or two???


During the start-up phase, they will be spending vast sums of money, actually building the network, once the network is in the ground the upkeep will be comparatively minimal. I'm sure the shareholders would love to see it return small profits during that startup phase, and massive profits once the fibre is in the ground and it simply becomes a giant money generating tree for the next 40-50 years. I believe that is morally and ethically wrong for a government created monopoly to be allowed to do that. If you restrict what Chorus can charge, you can balance things so that over the expected lifetime of the fibre, the ROI averages out at a reasonable level, which would mean that the company runs at a huge loss during the startup phase, gradually building up to higher profits as it pays off the debt it has accrued. I hope that makes sense.




I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


Coil
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  #967784 15-Jan-2014 21:18
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Lias:
Klipspringer: 
Chorus should run at a loss for a decade or two???


During the start-up phase, they will be spending vast sums of money, actually building the network, once the network is in the ground the upkeep will be comparatively minimal. I'm sure the shareholders would love to see it return small profits during that startup phase, and massive profits once the fibre is in the ground and it simply becomes a giant money generating tree for the next 40-50 years. I believe that is morally and ethically wrong for a government created monopoly to be allowed to do that. If you restrict what Chorus can charge, you can balance things so that over the expected lifetime of the fibre, the ROI averages out at a reasonable level, which would mean that the company runs at a huge loss during the startup phase, gradually building up to higher profits as it pays off the debt it has accrued. I hope that makes sense.


We have this scheme called RBI. We dont need to roll out copper to people in the country and spend billions more to service the last 5% of the population. What a waste when we can invest in UFB.. And for the person that thinks NZ internet isn't cheap. You got to be on some good drugs to think that. Go to other parts of this worlds and try to get ADSL1 for the same price or even developed countries get VDSL2 for nearly the same price. People just start comparing us with countries of 50million+ citizens in a more concertinaed area. This comparison is ridiculous. These discussion really get annoying at times with peoples comments. I can fairly say if you dont like it where you live get a new house or piss off over seas please and stop winging.

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