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  # 1001810 9-Mar-2014 18:24
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KiwiNZ:
sbiddle:
KiwiNZ:
sbiddle:
KiwiNZ: Telco's still make a big percentage of their profit from the copper network especially voice. It should not be got rid of in the medium future.


Do you have any evidence to back this comment?

Telecom still make good profits as they own the NEAXs. Pretty much everybody else is simply reselling that service or providing VoIP solutions.



As advised by a Senior Telco Exec/family member


I want figures, not simply repeating what somebody else says.

Telecom make margin. Nobody else does, or can, simply by reselling somebody else's services.

In terms of other copper services the margins on UBA are super slim in the residential space, it really has been a race to the bottom. Orcon have publically stated it takes them 27 months to make a profit on a UBA DSL customer.










I am not going to pass on something told to me in confidence


The simple fact is it's not possible for anybody who's simply reselling a product to make big profits. End of story.





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  # 1001811 9-Mar-2014 18:27
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Buzz Bumble:

I believe it was actually a politician who started the idea of pulling out the copper lines ... of course, politicians know even less than journalists. ;-)



The copper will get pulled eventually.  One day we're going to want the lead to batteries and the copper for electric motors.

When they put new sewers in, they run the main line first, then they dig the road back up and lay in the latterals to connect each house.

Everything happens in stages and that's what will happen here too.

That copper is going to get shut down and pulled out in areas that Chorus own more than one network.  They're going to want the exchange space for other gear and they're not going to keep replacing ISAM gear when they've got perfectly good OLT units in an exchange.

It's expensive to maintain legacy gear.  Why do we think Microsoft are halting support for XP even though there are 300 million computers still running it?






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  # 1001812 9-Mar-2014 18:29
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sbiddle:
KiwiNZ:
sbiddle:
KiwiNZ:
sbiddle:
KiwiNZ: Telco's still make a big percentage of their profit from the copper network especially voice. It should not be got rid of in the medium future.


Do you have any evidence to back this comment?

Telecom still make good profits as they own the NEAXs. Pretty much everybody else is simply reselling that service or providing VoIP solutions.



As advised by a Senior Telco Exec/family member


I want figures, not simply repeating what somebody else says.

Telecom make margin. Nobody else does, or can, simply by reselling somebody else's services.

In terms of other copper services the margins on UBA are super slim in the residential space, it really has been a race to the bottom. Orcon have publically stated it takes them 27 months to make a profit on a UBA DSL customer.










I am not going to pass on something told to me in confidence


The simple fact is it's not possible for anybody who's simply reselling a product to make big profits. End of story.




Resellers are a part of the equation not the sum.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 1001814 9-Mar-2014 18:32
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sbiddle:  The simple fact is it's not possible for anybody who's simply reselling a product to make big profits. End of story.


Agreed.

You simply can't compete with other layer 1 providers who are not wholesaling and have a lower cost base due to newer lower cost equipment.

Some people have suggested that we should have a regulated single supplier, but that doesn't work either, as has been proven in the past, because they become out of step with the international space and also can typically only deliver a single service type which doesn't fit the whole market.





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  # 1001815 9-Mar-2014 18:32
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DonGould:
Buzz Bumble:

I believe it was actually a politician who started the idea of pulling out the copper lines ... of course, politicians know even less than journalists. ;-)



The copper will get pulled eventually.  One day we're going to want the lead to batteries and the copper for electric motors.

When they put new sewers in, they run the main line first, then they dig the road back up and lay in the latterals to connect each house.

Everything happens in stages and that's what will happen here too.

That copper is going to get shut down and pulled out in areas that Chorus own more than one network.  They're going to want the exchange space for other gear and they're not going to keep replacing ISAM gear when they've got perfectly good OLT units in an exchange.

It's expensive to maintain legacy gear.  Why do we think Microsoft are halting support for XP even though there are 300 million computers still running it?




We should pull out all the petrol stations as electric vehicles are available





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




3889 posts

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  # 1001817 9-Mar-2014 18:35
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KiwiNZ:  We should pull out all the petrol stations as electric vehicles are available



Agreed, and we are. 

More and more stations are being converted to being robust dynamic retail operations as cars have become more and more reliable and there is far less need and demand for repair shops.

As more and more power comes on line and cars use less and less petrol we'll start to see less and less stations.

You don't see any hay sellers in the city now other than a pet store for your rabbit.






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  # 1001829 9-Mar-2014 19:05
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DonGould:
Aredwood:
Im currently with Woosh for ADSL. Since they don't do fibre and I don't want to wait for my contract to expire, I will have to pay a $150 early disconnection fee to them. Alot of people im sure don't want to pay such a fee. So are probably waiting for their current contracts to expire. Also Im on a grandfathered plan with them which won't allow me to have a data cap larger than 80GB. If I want to move to a current plan the 2 year contract term will start again, and the termination fee will be $200.


You raised a number of quite interesting issues.

First I'm motivated to just give you a telling off.  Stop whinging about $200, cancel your contract and change provider.  Have some faith that what goes around comes around.  You help out Chorus and CFH by becoming a fibre user and some where you'll come across that $200 again.

But secondly we need to have a look at Chorus.  They've been in the media at late about profit warnings yet they have clearly failed to work with the ISP community to just make sure that everyone who wants to step up and provide service is on line.  That is just a disgrace.

$4.5b is being invested and TPLP's like Woosh are not on board.  Give me strength!






But Im already doing that. I have already signed up for UFB with snap. And yes I will be paying the early disconnection fee when UFB is working. No point in leaving the ADSL connected for 6 months just to see out the contract. The monthly fees for it will be far more than just paying the disconnection fee.  (See my post on page 3 of this thread.)


In my case it is worth switching (and paying the break fee) to get faster speeds (100/50) than ADSL and to get bigger data caps. But if my current speed and data cap was fine for what I do, then there wouldn't be much point switching. At least not until the contract would have expired. Which would be the case for those who the 30/10 ufb plans are marketed to. (People who don't use the internet much but want a connection that is faster than dial up.)



 
 
 
 




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  # 1001839 9-Mar-2014 19:30
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Aredwood: Which would be the case for those who the 30/10 ufb plans are marketed to. (People who don't use the internet much but want a connection that is faster than dial up.)




Sorry I missunderstood your post.

Yes.  That 30/10 product is just stupid.

For Chorus to be having a wawa about profit warnings in the media while also offering those products is just a joke.

We've been here before and it seems that the lessons were not learnt.

The network is a 2.5gbit one and upgradeable to 10G with ease, so a 0.03/0.01G service is just stupid.

Chorus are on TV marketing gigatown.co.nz yet the product offerings are 0.1/0.05G and 0.03/0.01G.  Seriously... 

You guys who are annoyed about the copper issues need to be on the ComCom about false marketing on this gigatown stuff.  It's exactly the same stuff we've seen time and time again and still they just don't learn.

The base product on the UFB fibre should be 1Gb/1Gb PIR.




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  # 1001845 9-Mar-2014 19:36
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What price are folks willing to pay?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1001847 9-Mar-2014 19:43
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KiwiNZ: What price are folks willing to pay?


Having a couple of young kids with a stay home wife, the $90, 50/20 Snap plan is a plan that will suit us perfect, once Snap put their link in our exchange that is.




"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"



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  # 1001856 9-Mar-2014 19:49
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KiwiNZ: What price are folks willing to pay?


Well I've already paid $1.5 billion in Tax dollars, so I expect to get 1/1G for $20 wholesale.

D




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  # 1001862 9-Mar-2014 19:57
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DonGould:
KiwiNZ: What price are folks willing to pay?


Well I've already paid $1.5 billion in Tax dollars, so I expect to get 1/1G for $20 wholesale.

D


The service providers are not charities, they will not and cannot give their products away.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




3889 posts

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  # 1001867 9-Mar-2014 20:09
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KiwiNZ:  The service providers are not charities, they will not and cannot give their products away.


Totally agree!

We're in an world of 100GE interfaces.  I said 1/1G PIR for $20 wholesale. 

I never said anything about free services.

You're just going from one extreme to another.

As a service provider, I should be able to pick up a 10G direct connection to the POI for $20 a month and start providing services on that.

Let's not forget for a second here that we've paid $1.5Billion dollars of tax money into this network.  There is NOTHING free going on here.





Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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  # 1001870 9-Mar-2014 20:11
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DonGould:
KiwiNZ:  The service providers are not charities, they will not and cannot give their products away.


Totally agree!

We're in an world of 100GE interfaces.  I said 1/1G PIR for $20 wholesale. 

I never said anything about free services.

You're just going from one extreme to another.

As a service provider, I should be able to pick up a 10G direct connection to the POI for $20 a month and start providing services on that.

Let's not forget for a second here that we've paid $1.5Billion dollars of tax money into this network.  There is NOTHING free going on here.



I will show this to a certain family member, they will find it interesting.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




3889 posts

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  # 1001882 9-Mar-2014 20:44
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KiwiNZ: I will show this to a certain family member, they will find it interesting.


I'm sure they will who ever they are, if they're interested in Internet delivery in New Zealand.

Imagine people actually hosting their own email in their own community rather than on a server in the US?

Free spied on email v's cheap low cost private email.

Wonder what Kiwi's would prefer to think their Tax dollars had paid for?






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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