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237 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 77547 10-Jul-2007 08:08
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Might be time to install Peerguardian....  Wink

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 77680 10-Jul-2007 22:23
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I agree with the XNet T&C, like the idea of being with an ISP that does not take cr*p.

Who is going to get upset about downloading porn?  But the software houses will definately try and track you down if you download their software.

If there is illegal activity, the way to stop it is to suspend the account.  If it is illegal activity due to an unsecure Wi-Fi router, then you still deal with it by suspending the account.  I can't see the problem with that, it deals with the problem immediately.




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BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 77681 10-Jul-2007 22:26
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Who says it's illegal activity? An organisation that did not provide evidence, except for an IP address, which we know can be spoofed.

It is the same as someone going around with your number plates on their car.

The only way to really prove the action is to either have the ISPs logging all traffic (impossible storage requirements) or for a computer forensics expert to look at the suspect computer and determine if the files are indeed there. This can be only done with a court order, surely.

So, until a due process is followed, this all sounds flawed, even if it's to protect the innocent truthful owner of the copyrighted material.








836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 77692 11-Jul-2007 01:18
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There are easier ways to do it than that - ISPs can reasonably easily keep a track of IP traffic flows per customer if they so wish (source, destination, time stamp and more), if the traffic flows match what information you have been sent in the infringement notice then 99.9% chance that person has been downloading something naughty.

Also all this talk about spoofing IP's etc, unless your ISPs NOC staff are idiots this is not that easy to do.

Which brings me to my final point, NOC staff are the worst offenders for downloading copyright material as a general rule. I mean think about it, huge amounts of unused bandwidth, very tech savvy people and nobody else to audit what they are doing.

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  Reply # 77696 11-Jul-2007 07:06
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freitasm: Who says it's illegal activity? An organisation that did not provide evidence, except for an IP address, which we know can be spoofed.
It is the same as someone going around with your number plates on their car.


The e-mail used a PGP signature, which has no known cracks.  Also, we do not see the message source, so we don't know what else is in there to assist WxC to confirm it's authenticity.  But any company willing to react to an e-mail is either stupid or knows what they are doing.

ISPs do not have to log all web access, they can ignore known good sites (or log only suspect ones).  Yes there is a "hit and miss" factor, but their spam filter is pretty accurate so the logging filter can also be.  Would not be surprised if there is an international list of suspect addresses.




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Nate wants an iphone
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  Reply # 77710 11-Jul-2007 09:35
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Niel:
freitasm: Who says it's illegal activity? An organisation that did not provide evidence, except for an IP address, which we know can be spoofed.
It is the same as someone going around with your number plates on their car.


The e-mail used a PGP signature, which has no known cracks. Also, we do not see the message source, so we don't know what else is in there to assist WxC to confirm it's authenticity. But any company willing to react to an e-mail is either stupid or knows what they are doing.

ISPs do not have to log all web access, they can ignore known good sites (or log only suspect ones). Yes there is a "hit and miss" factor, but their spam filter is pretty accurate so the logging filter can also be. Would not be surprised if there is an international list of suspect addresses.


What exactly does a PGP signature achieve? All it does is tell us that it came from this person and/or hasn't been modified. Spam filters have nothing to do with this. That refers to email, not regular internet access.

It does not tell us:
  1. Was the person actually involved with distribution of copyrighted material
  2. Whether it *was* actually the account owner. It could have been an insecure wifi hotspot - ie. plaintext or WEP. Should the account owner be liable for the shortcomings of a lot of older wifi devices or routers? I certainly hope not.
  3. Whether his IP address was spoofed
  4. Was the user just downloading a copy due to his CD being broken?
  5. Whether it was actually copyrighted material. There have been articles about this organisation sending take down notices for open source/public demand content which only by chance share the same name! Alternatively - even if it say had a copyrighted name 'transformers', was it even the copyrighted work in question - as some names are quite generic by nature so perhaps he is downloading something else.
Given that there are law suits over in the states with highly contestable 'evidence', with a few people being falsely accused or being sued yet not ever installing p2p software/downloading movies - I believe that it is a reasonable request for ISP's here in New Zealand to verify the above. Until the above are satisfied, I would have serious concerns if my internet was cancelled due to one such notice, particularly when the validity of those claims have not been verified.

And furthermore, what is stopping someone from sending takedown notices like a kid did to Youtube for ABC performances (which had been released on Youtube with permissions)?






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Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 77713 11-Jul-2007 10:11
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Details, details, anyone actually opening abuse@yourisp wouldn't have time for details. Possibly why there's no flood of Xtra cancellations, do they pay much attention to email on that address.

Nate wants an iphone
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  Reply # 77714 11-Jul-2007 10:18
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Details, details??? What is that supposed to mean? Does it mean someone sent an email to my ISP saying that they suspect I have been involved in downloading pirated goods that they should go ahead and do it???

Heard of the concept 'innocent till proven guilty'?

Would customers that have had their services cut off because of these claims be entitled to compensation from either the organization that sent the email or the Internet provider.

Something isn't right if ones connection can be cut off just because some offshore organisation suspects you were downloading copyrighted material. Internet providers should actually check the validity of the claims before bowing down to them. Remember we are the ISP's customers, not those offshore providers.




webhosting |New Zealand connectionsgeekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 77715 11-Jul-2007 10:34
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I agree with you.

I've also pointed to the stupidity of ISPs happy to block email because some "offshore oganisation" has blacklisted another ISP for alleged spam and been told that that is how it works.



74 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 77716 11-Jul-2007 10:39
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Ok so a couple of comments from the suspended.

someone said "Was the user just downloading a copy due to his CD being broken?"

Well either way on bittorrent, when you are downloading you are uploading, so are actually helping share it which is the illegal part.

2, the thing that actually pissed me the hell off, is that they suspended the account without warning. We run our business exchange server off that connection, and to have it disconnected meant me calling someone to go check out the problem as we thought it was just a router issue.

They have my details, why not call me and tell me they have recieved this notice, or do they suspend hundreds of accounts a day, too many to call for?


I would have appreciated a call, rather than having to call them to find out why my internet is suspended.

424 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 77729 11-Jul-2007 12:57
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Niel: I agree with the XNet T&C, like the idea of being with an ISP that does not take cr*p.

If there is illegal activity, the way to stop it is to suspend the account.  If it is illegal activity due to an unsecure Wi-Fi router, then you still deal with it by suspending the account.  I can't see the problem with that, it deals with the problem immediately.


The thing that bothered me was that the terms and conditions included things that weren't illegal.  Suppose I post something about a policitian on a website, and using the IP address they manage to see what ISP was used.  So the policitian then goes to the ISP to complain, and they close my account because of the complaint.  This is what I have the problem with.

Tell me that this has never happened.

1200 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 77741 11-Jul-2007 14:31
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Dear Customer,

We have received notice regarding your IP address (at the time) and the following copyright material being downloaded. This activity is against our terms of service which you agreed upon when joining Xnet (Acceptable Use Policy http://www.xnet.co.nz/content/terms.shtml).


What Is A Copyright Infringement Notice?

The movie, game & music industries have empowered a number of organisations to investigate and prosecute breaches of copyright occurring on the Internet. A copyright infringement is notice of a copyright breach which is usually sent to the offending users Internet service provider. You put yourself at risk of receiving a copyright infringement by using third party sharing programs and downloading copyright content from the Internet.


What happens if I receive a Copyright Infringement?

You will be warned and provided with a copy of the infringement in question. Your internet service will be temporarily suspended while notification takes place. The option is available to contact the copyright organisation and dispute said infringement. If copies of correspondence can be shown to clear the matter the infringement will not be taken into account.


What happens if I receive a second Copyright Infringement?

The Internet service will be closed & notice of the second infringement will be given. The option is available to contact the copyright organisation and dispute said infringement. If copies of correspondence can be shown to clear the matter the account can be re-instated.


Overview

Copyright breaches are illegal and dealt with in a serious manner. We do not wish to lose a customer however repeated Copyright Infringements leave us with no choice. If you receive two infringements (un-disputed) your Internet service will be closed and you will need to find another provider


Best regards,


Cameron Nicholson

Technical Response Centre Manager

WorldxChange Communications

Ph : 09 308 1361

Fax : 09 308 1301


Copy of Copyright Infringement.


Subject: Copyright Infringement Notice Notice ID: 14-14810792
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:23:42 -0700
To: abuse@wxnz.net
From: universal-studios-no-reply@copyright-compliance.com
Download (untitled) [text/plain 4.9k]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Re: Unauthorized Use of NBC Universal Properties
Notice ID: 14-14810792
11 Jun 2007 14:23:20 GMT

Please be advised that NBC Universal and/or its subsidiary and affiliated companies (collectively, NBC Universal) are the owners of exclusive rights protected under copyright law and other intellectual property rights in many motion pictures and television programs, including the title(s) listed below (the NBC Universal Properties). NBC Universal diligently enforces its rights in its motion pictures.

It has come to our attention that WorldxChange Communications is the service provider for the IP address listed below, from which unauthorized copying and distribution (downloading, uploading, file serving, file "swapping" or other similar activities) of NBC Universal's motion picture(s) listed below is taking place. We believe that the Internet access of the user engaging in this infringement is provided by WorldxChange Communications or a downstream service provider who purchases this connectivity from WorldxChange Communications.

This unauthorized copying and distribution constitutes copyright infringement under applicable national laws and international treaties. Although various legal and equitable remedies may be available to NBC Universal as a result of such infringement, NBC Universal believes that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal.

Please be advised that this letter is not intended to be a complete statement of the facts or law as they may pertain to this matter or of NBC Universal's positions, rights or remedies, legal or equitable, all of which are specifically reserved.

Please send us a prompt response indicating the actions you have taken to resolve this matter, making sure to reference the Notice ID number above in your response.

mailto:antipiracy@nbcuni.com?subject=RE%3A%20Copyright%20Infringement%20Notice%20Notice%20ID%3A%2014%2D14810792

If you do not wish to reply by email, please use our Web Interface by
clicking on the following link:

http://webreply.baytsp.com/webreply/webreply.jsp?customerid=14&commhash=4b8df700cc1f97b0278317d16e2cf7d3

Note: If your email program has inserted line breaks into either the
email or web links above, you can copy and paste the entire link in to
you email program, or favorite web browser, respectively.


Very truly yours,


Internet Anti-Piracy Team,
Worldwide Anti-Piracy Operations
NBC UNIVERSAL
100 Universal City Plaza 1220/2
Universal City, CA 91608
tel. (818) 777-4876
fax (818) 866-2155
antipiracy@nbcuni.com

*pgp public key is available on the key server at ldap://keyserver.pgp.com
** For any correspondence regarding this case, please send your emails to antipiracy@nbcuni.com and refer to Notice ID: 14-14810792. If you need immediate assistance or if you have general questions please call the number listed above.
Title: Quantum Leap (TV)
Infringement Source: BitTorrent
Initial Infringement Timestamp: 11 Jun 2007 12:12:15 GMT
Recent Infringment Timestamp: 11 Jun 2007 12:12:15 GMT
Infringer Username:
Infringing Filename: Quantum Leap - Season 1 - Dvdrip
Infringing Filesize: 3304159232
Infringers IP Address: 58.28.129.165
Infringers DNS Name: ip-58-28-129-165.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz
Infringing URL: http://qltrack.yi.org:6969/announce


- ---Start ACNS XML




14810792
Open


NBC Universal
Aaron Markham, Director of Internet Anti-Piracy
100 Universal City Plaza (2160/7E), Universal City, California 91608 United States of America

818-777-4876,
antipiracy@nbcuni.com


WorldxChange Communications

abuse@wxnz.net


2007-06-11T12:12:15.000Z
58.28.129.165
80
ip-58-28-129-165.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz
BitTorrent

1
No




Quantum Leap - Season 1 - Dvdrip
3304159232
http://qltrack.yi.org:6969/announce



- ---End ACNS XML
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 8.0

iD8DBQFGbVrtvmTY1IeHkqERApQ3AJ4m1Kp6sf8496rkT0RDoQlE5DBeOACfckk0
AgvEtocyXGooy7IZ+nEuXP4=
=mhMt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Simon Jackson
Xnet Internet Technical Support
www.xnet.co.nz
0800 14 9638




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.



74 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 77743 11-Jul-2007 14:37
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Did your account get suspended?

Thats two so far, both xnet...

1200 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 77745 11-Jul-2007 14:47
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Yes, account was disabled.

I'm going to dispute it, either claim common carrier status, or demand further proof of copyright breach, as a filename isn't sufficent as far as I'm aware - but also don't want to be the example case for NZ :)

I just have not had time so far.

Thinking of using a anonymous proxy service.




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

66 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 77746 11-Jul-2007 14:51
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freitasm: Still, you can't prevent others spoofing your IP address, can you?


What do you mean by "spoofing your IP address"?

The fact is it's very hard to remain anonymous; at least whilst commanding a half decent amount of bandwidth anyway.

Encryption is the best option for privacy but applications for encryption without authentication are limited.

In years to come I predict that personal use of encryption on the internet will be outlawed.



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