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1420 posts

Uber Geek

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  Reply # 78290 16-Jul-2007 15:10
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Three words - Usenet, Usenet, Usenet. With Usenet there is no upload so no sharing which means you are not distributing.



74 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 78293 16-Jul-2007 15:28
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Jama: Three words - Usenet, Usenet, Usenet. With Usenet there is no upload so no sharing which means you are not distributing.


It's harder to find decent speeds though isn't it?

1420 posts

Uber Geek

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  Reply # 78294 16-Jul-2007 15:34
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What do you call decent? Running NZB-O-MATIC with multiple threads you can get 2.5mbps. Speed also depends on your Usenet provider.

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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 78313 16-Jul-2007 16:02
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cokemaster:
kritical:

Lets say your Coffee Table gets destroyed, do you have the right to just go out and steal a new one? That's idiotic, you buy insurance, it's no different with a Computer Game.


Ah, but now you are comparing a physical object with a digital object, where an item can be copied without any effect. Further more, you are buying only a license for the game. However if you loose your CD's - buy a new CD with a new license... go figure.


When you buy a game you are well within your rights to backup the CD if you can't keep it in a safe place.

If you damage the CD and don't have insurance... bad luck... there is no one you can blame other than yourself, you can go out and buy the game again and maybe this time you'll look after it.

If you choose to download the game using Bittorrent you're breaking the law, regardless if you agree with the law this is irrelevant.  The fact of the matter is we have Copyright Laws in New Zealand and you can face criminal charges for breaking them.





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Master Geek


  Reply # 78318 16-Jul-2007 16:08
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kritical:

When you buy a game you are well within your rights to backup the CD if you can't keep it in a safe place.



No you're not.

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Ultimate Geek
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WorldxChange

  Reply # 78322 16-Jul-2007 16:34
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Hi All,

I'm the person that often manages the customer contact in regards to suspension and sometimes cancellation due to copyright infringement.   Once the account is suspended a callback is created to ensure the customer is informed and sent a copy .  This should happen on the same day and I apologise for the delay in reaching anyone who's waited days. 

We will not re-activate the account until the account holder has been notified.  Obviously we want to ensure the customer is fully informed and aware of the consequences of any further infringements.

Note action is only taken from the major companies which are well known and reputable (these are checked prior to action being taken).  The source/report is provided in the email to dispute the infringement.  If the person is unwilling to contact them and clear the matter the infringement stands.  Yes there is a small chance you may not have downloaded said content.  Traffic accounting & Net flow logs can be checked to confirm the type of traffic done.  Most people do not dispute the infringements because they know either they or someone has been downloading illgeal content.

Every user that signs up to the service agrees to our Acceptable Use Policy - We are perhaps one of the few ISP's (there are a few others that do) that take it seriously and act upon infringements.  Given the possible upcoming changes to Digital Copyright (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=28179).  We may change our stance but for now it stands.

Thanks
Cameron















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Master Geek


  Reply # 78326 16-Jul-2007 16:49
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From digital copyright bill:
The increasing popularity of legitimate online music services such as Coke Tunes,


Ahhhh,... Coke Tunes is shutting down...

Parliamentary Bills and their processes are so last century. It's taken 6 months since it's submissions and hasn't progressed?

Bah - off topic anyway.

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  Reply # 78366 16-Jul-2007 22:12
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I still stand by XNet for following legislation.  At the same time I also laugh at how Sky can provide us with the MySky copying service (it is a subscription service, not just a hardware purchase) and get away with it.  MySky not just copies movies, it also allows you to skip advertisements which Sky already got paid for!  That is what makes the infringement notice a joke, not the fact that XNet acted upon it.  Let's rather take Sky to court!




You can never have enough Volvos!


Nate wants an iphone
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  Reply # 78367 16-Jul-2007 22:52
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kritical:

When you buy a game you are well within your rights to backup the CD if you can't keep it in a safe place.





That is providing that you are able to... most if not all cd's come with 'copy protection'...




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Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


Nate wants an iphone
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  Reply # 78386 17-Jul-2007 08:44
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Cameronn:

Note action is only taken from the major companies which are well known and reputable (these are checked prior to action being taken). The source/report is provided in the email to dispute the infringement. If the person is unwilling to contact them and clear the matter the infringement stands. Yes there is a small chance you may not have downloaded said content. Traffic accounting & Net flow logs can be checked to confirm the type of traffic done. Most people do not dispute the infringements because they know either they or someone has been downloading illgeal content.


So what happens when:
  • The company is not well known (but has a legitimate grievance with copyright infringement). There are lots of small software houses out there, as well as one man companies. If there is a complaint will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • You run a public hotspot?
  • Someone violates copyright on GPLed or opensourced software and then uses a WXC connection to initially upload it to a website? If there is a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • A user posts text or images on forums which exceeds fair use. Do owners of content (who might not actually be companies) get the same treatment? If there a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • Someone posts an copyrighted image on a forum (seen it many times) and someone complains (obviously they are using a WXC connection)?
  • A user uses instant messenger to exchange copyrighted content? If there is a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • Someone uses pirated software which phones home or declines activation (with a invalid serial or known crack). There is the strong possibility that the user has downloaded it off the internet. If there is a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
There are some question marks over the 'if the person is unwilling to contact them and clear the matter the infringement stands', as you may be well aware, there are situations in the US where people have been taken to court for copyright violations, only to find that the evidence and witnesses used are questionable or misinformed. Obviously in situations like this, they will not clear you unless you pay their 'fee' (which you can do online now!).

What will WXC do if:
  • The complaint is without merit
  • The complaint is faked. If the connection is dropped for a faked noticed, will the accused get an account credit covering at the time that their internet connection was down?
  • If settlement is not fore-coming and someone takes their computers to be examined by a specialist, will WXC revoke said black mark? And since they are making the allegation on the advice of an email from a 'major company' which has made mistakes in the past, can the accused invoice WXC and the major company for the costs involved?
  • In the examples above, you are able to show that posting a sample of text falls under the definition of fair use?
Please note, that I am not a fan of copyright infringement myself, I purchase my songs from Itunes, buy software online (VM fusion was great value for money by the way), rarely use peer to peer applications short of downloading opensourced projects - however I have serious concerns when I see action taken like this and I'm reading rather disappointing articles about the way infringements are handled in the US. I hope that WXC takes all reasonable effects to ensure that people are not falsely accused and should someone get accused who wants to clear their name, provide a means where they can clear their name here in New Zealand rather than having email debates with an offshore company.

Most people do not dispute the infringements because they know either they or someone has been downloading illgeal content.

I know, I've seen it happen many times (not from the receiver end) ;)






webhosting |New Zealand connectionsgeekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!




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Master Geek


  Reply # 78387 17-Jul-2007 08:50
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cokemaster:
  • The company is not well known (but has a legitimate grievance with copyright infringement). There are lots of small software houses out there, as well as one man companies. If there is a complaint will WXC sever the internet connection?




Note the company that has been contacting in the cases reporting here is a company that is contracted by other companies, so I imagine that the smaller software houses would do the same, just contract it out...

BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 78394 17-Jul-2007 09:09
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cokemaster:
kritical:

When you buy a game you are well within your rights to backup the CD if you can't keep it in a safe place.



That is providing that you are able to... most if not all cd's come with 'copy protection'...


Not according to the current New Zealand legislation. You are not allowed to "place shift" the contents of a CD, not even for backup purposes.







74 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 78395 17-Jul-2007 09:18
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freitasm:
Not according to the current New Zealand legislation. You are not allowed to "place shift" the contents of a CD, not even for backup purposes.



You are allowed to create a backup of a game or software... but only after the fact (after it's been damaged)...

Got Chicken?

1420 posts

Uber Geek

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  Reply # 78396 17-Jul-2007 09:26
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Not for backup or for use on your iPod you mean? All iPod users should be locked up for piracy and Apple should have been sued for encouraging piracy in the first place.

This is the irony - a sniff or a whiff of piracy on the internet and infringement notices are sent whilst Johnny the Pirate is selling bucket loads of illegal music/movie disks in Asia.

Personally, I don't see that problem if a user has lost/broken/scratched a game CD that they have paid for they should be able to easily obtain another copy. I buy games and then get a crack so that I don't have to suffer the inconvenience of disk checking each time I want to play. Sometimes I might download the ISO so I don't need the CD ever. What I have paid for is the activation/license code which is unique to me. I am not sharing this code, it is for my own use. Therefore it should be my choice how I store/retrieve/play the game.

Not all 'piracy' is actual piracy.



334 posts

Ultimate Geek
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WorldxChange

  Reply # 78397 17-Jul-2007 09:26
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cokemaster:
Cameronn:

Note action is only taken from the major companies which are well known and reputable (these are checked prior to action being taken). The source/report is provided in the email to dispute the infringement. If the person is unwilling to contact them and clear the matter the infringement stands. Yes there is a small chance you may not have downloaded said content. Traffic accounting & Net flow logs can be checked to confirm the type of traffic done. Most people do not dispute the infringements because they know either they or someone has been downloading illgeal content.


So what happens when:
  • The company is not well known (but has a legitimate grievance with copyright infringement). There are lots of small software houses out there, as well as one man companies. If there is a complaint will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • You run a public hotspot?
  • Someone violates copyright on GPLed or opensourced software and then uses a WXC connection to initially upload it to a website? If there is a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • A user posts text or images on forums which exceeds fair use. Do owners of content (who might not actually be companies) get the same treatment? If there a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • Someone posts an copyrighted image on a forum (seen it many times) and someone complains (obviously they are using a WXC connection)?
  • A user uses instant messenger to exchange copyrighted content? If there is a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
  • Someone uses pirated software which phones home or declines activation (with a invalid serial or known crack). There is the strong possibility that the user has downloaded it off the internet. If there is a complaint, will WXC sever the internet connection?
There are some question marks over the 'if the person is unwilling to contact them and clear the matter the infringement stands', as you may be well aware, there are situations in the US where people have been taken to court for copyright violations, only to find that the evidence and witnesses used are questionable or misinformed. Obviously in situations like this, they will not clear you unless you pay their 'fee' (which you can do online now!).

What will WXC do if:
  • The complaint is without merit
  • The complaint is faked. If the connection is dropped for a faked noticed, will the accused get an account credit covering at the time that their internet connection was down?
  • If settlement is not fore-coming and someone takes their computers to be examined by a specialist, will WXC revoke said black mark? And since they are making the allegation on the advice of an email from a 'major company' which has made mistakes in the past, can the accused invoice WXC and the major company for the costs involved?
  • In the examples above, you are able to show that posting a sample of text falls under the definition of fair use?
Please note, that I am not a fan of copyright infringement myself, I purchase my songs from Itunes, buy software online (VM fusion was great value for money by the way), rarely use peer to peer applications short of downloading opensourced projects - however I have serious concerns when I see action taken like this and I'm reading rather disappointing articles about the way infringements are handled in the US. I hope that WXC takes all reasonable effects to ensure that people are not falsely accused and should someone get accused who wants to clear their name, provide a means where they can clear their name here in New Zealand rather than having email debates with an offshore company.

Most people do not dispute the infringements because they know either they or someone has been downloading illgeal content.

I know, I've seen it happen many times (not from the receiver end) ;)




All very good questions.  I won't try to address them all as I'll never get any work done and I don't have all the answers.

We'll be as helpful as possible given the circumstances and will investigate cases (internally) where people dispute infringements.







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