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64 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1059905 5-Jun-2014 16:48
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Demeter:
OMGpjay: There are densely populated suburbs within New Zealands main cities that might as well be considered "rural", this is what I mean by 3rd world amenities amongst 1st world living.


This is pretty off-topic, but could you name me an example? As someone who grew up in a 3rd world country I haven't come across any place in New Zealand that remotely matches the description '3rd world'.


As I've dictated in my followup comment above, I'm not referring to 3rd world in the sense of a lack or running water or food which is the conclusion I can only assume you're jumping to - but more 3rd world in the sense that these areas might as well be rural parts of NZ. Although they are populated, nobody cares to invest in them - especially the local infrastructure, mainly due to a lack of return on investment.

If you can imagine being nestled in on dial up, or a Conklin, or even a congested ASAM or ISAM - or not even having the capability to connect to fixed line DSL due to a lack of available ports (as the position OP is in); located sometimes less than 20 minutes from the heart of a main city, you could appreciate where I'm coming from with that observation. That's not even delving into the populated parts of NZ that are still yet to taste more than dialup, or what's no better than dialup because their node is peaking 24/7.

MikeAqua: You can get very poor broadband speed living in the CBD fringe of a city.  That would be an exact description of the quality of 'broad'band we get at our current abode, which is within 10 minutes walk of Nelson's CBD.  Everywhere I travel overseas, including some 3rd world countries, I get better internet speed than I do at home.  Hardly the foundation on which to build any sort of knowledge economy.


This +1

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1059913 5-Jun-2014 17:08
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Alright, I'll bite.

OMGpjay: As I've dictated in my followup comment above, I'm not referring to 3rd world in the sense of a lack or running water or food which is the conclusion I can only assume you're jumping to - but more 3rd world in the sense that these areas might as well be rural parts of NZ. Although they are populated, nobody cares to invest in them - especially the local infrastructure, mainly due to a lack of return on investment.


Actually, the 'conclusion I was jumping to' had a very technical basis. I used to work for Telkom in South Africa , which as 3rd world countries go is pretty high-tech all things considered. Comparing broadband services here - where they can actually be called 'broadband' - to what is largely available in South Africa to the majority of the populace, even on the edge of large towns (we're talking several million people) is like comparing apples to applecarts.

If you can imagine being nestled in on dial up, or a Conklin, or even a congested ASAM or ISAM - or not even having the capability to connect to fixed line DSL due to a lack of available ports (as the position OP is in); located sometimes less than 20 minutes from the heart of a main city, you could appreciate where I'm coming from with that observation. That's not even delving into the populated parts of NZ that are still yet to taste more than dialup, or what's no better than dialup because their node is peaking 24/7.


I'm curious - have you ever used dial-up? Every time I hear someone comparing sub 5Mbps connections to dial up, I have to wonder.

MikeAqua: You can get very poor broadband speed living in the CBD fringe of a city.  That would be an exact description of the quality of 'broad'band we get at our current abode, which is within 10 minutes walk of Nelson's CBD.  Everywhere I travel overseas, including some 3rd world countries, I get better internet speed than I do at home.  Hardly the foundation on which to build any sort of knowledge economy.


Yes, downloading at lightspeed will probably not be possible if you're getting close to that 5km-from-the-nearest-Exchange limit. That is simply a technological limitation and a fact of life until fiber makes it to the door.

DarthKermit: [Really OT now] what 3rd world country was that, if you don't mind me asking.


See above.




 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1059925 5-Jun-2014 17:29
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PhantomNVD:
TimA:
quickymart: Port waiters. What a fun situation to be in.
Reading this thread made me think of a couple of questions of my own...

(1) I thought ISAMs had more capacity than ASAMs, or is it the other way around? (2) Tim (who is that in your profile pic, btw?) mentioned the cabinet name. Is there a spreadsheet or anything on Chorus's site that says what exchange the cabinet is connected to, or where it is? ie, mine is BKL/D (I think) and I know it's in Birkdale and VDSL-enabled. Is there a list that says what cabinet is where?



Yes its the worlds greatest person to live. Nikola Tesla.
This one doesnt need access from Chorus: http://gis.geek.nz/infrastructure.html
Anything fibre fed is going to have VDSL to an extent.



anyone able to comment on the accuracy if the GZ GIS data?

According to this I have fibre right up my road "Fibre:PAK" from GLB/AD.... though the install date is 0000-00-00... this mean they are planning to upgrade but don't know when, or did the upgrade and never made it 'live' ??


I'm still hanging off the main exchange 4.73 Km's away (!) and my neighbours are port waiting for the last 2 years!


Close enough for what you will need to do.

If you want accurate info PM me.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1059966 5-Jun-2014 18:25
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Demeter: Alright, I'll bite.

OMGpjay: As I've dictated in my followup comment above, I'm not referring to 3rd world in the sense of a lack or running water or food which is the conclusion I can only assume you're jumping to - but more 3rd world in the sense that these areas might as well be rural parts of NZ. Although they are populated, nobody cares to invest in them - especially the local infrastructure, mainly due to a lack of return on investment.


Actually, the 'conclusion I was jumping to' had a very technical basis. I used to work for Telkom in South Africa , which as 3rd world countries go is pretty high-tech all things considered. Comparing broadband services here - where they can actually be called 'broadband' - to what is largely available in South Africa to the majority of the populace, even on the edge of large towns (we're talking several million people) is like comparing apples to applecarts.

If you can imagine being nestled in on dial up, or a Conklin, or even a congested ASAM or ISAM - or not even having the capability to connect to fixed line DSL due to a lack of available ports (as the position OP is in); located sometimes less than 20 minutes from the heart of a main city, you could appreciate where I'm coming from with that observation. That's not even delving into the populated parts of NZ that are still yet to taste more than dialup, or what's no better than dialup because their node is peaking 24/7.


I'm curious - have you ever used dial-up? Every time I hear someone comparing sub 5Mbps connections to dial up, I have to wonder.

MikeAqua: You can get very poor broadband speed living in the CBD fringe of a city.  That would be an exact description of the quality of 'broad'band we get at our current abode, which is within 10 minutes walk of Nelson's CBD.  Everywhere I travel overseas, including some 3rd world countries, I get better internet speed than I do at home.  Hardly the foundation on which to build any sort of knowledge economy.


Yes, downloading at lightspeed will probably not be possible if you're getting close to that 5km-from-the-nearest-Exchange limit. That is simply a technological limitation and a fact of life until fiber makes it to the door.

DarthKermit: [Really OT now] what 3rd world country was that, if you don't mind me asking.


See above.


I'm glad you bit, and I'm glad you used to work for a large ISP internationally because now there is no reason why you should not be able to fathom where I'm coming from.

I'm not talking sub 5mbps connections, nor is OP. He has NO connection - so a 192/64 kbps connection is still better than that. Congested nodes in NZ experience sub 1mbps connections before anyone considers doing anything about it and even then, it takes months if not years for network restructuring to be planned and implemented - not because that's how long it needs to take, but because Chorus and local ISPs do not prioritise "rural" areas. In the big scheme of things, I appreciate the business decisions due to financial reasoning, but it's still a really cruddy experience for someone who is but a stones throw from a main city to receive no, if not next to no internet.

Yes I have used dial up, and yes comparing NZ to S/A is comparing apples to apple carts - which I've never done. I'm not comparing NZ to other countries, I'm comparing NZ to NZ. ***Some suburbs within large cities might as well be rural based on local amenities - specifically internet service, and it's unfortunate*** - that's the only point I've tried to make here. I hope adding the asterisks helps highlight this, as I'm not sure how else to communicate this across.

Personally, I'm very happy ticking along with my fixed line BB that slows during the evenings, despite our massive ISAM backhaul, and I appreciate what I do have thanks to working in a customer facing role for an ISP through jetstream days to the fibre that's implemented today, and everything in between.

There are some that complain unnecessarily, blaming network limitations due to their misguided perception but I'm not referring to that at all. I'm speaking of unnecessary network limitations that are easily resolvable, but due to cost or effort involved, it's cheaper to overlook these faults. That's just crud for the end user, and reserve my right to empathise for these people.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1059975 5-Jun-2014 18:38
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I'm bowing out of this one because I'm not even sure what the argument is any more. Chorus is a business and expanding their copper network in rural areas at a massive expense compared to the return they can reasonably expect before the network becomes redundant is simply unviable. You're aware of this. Can you offer a solution?






38 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 1060141 5-Jun-2014 23:01
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So damn over it.
So what happened was before we moved house and slingshot said we can't get connected due to lack of ports, we rang around and asked all sorts of providers. Somehow Vodafone said they can get us connected with broadband. We asked them numerous times to 100% confirm that it was possible (as they were the last ones we rang out of many different ISPs who gave us the NO answer). But nope the girl on the phone insisted that we can get broadband at our new address. So we move house a couple of weeks later, ring up to get connected and sure enough "nope sorry, not enough ports". 
So by now we're fuming and trying to work something out with Vodafone.
They're now dragging it out like crazy, we were told we'd be called last friday but still nothing since then. We can't even move ISPs now as otherwise we'll lose our spot in port waiting so we have to have our home line with vodafone too.

 

Stuck with them because they said we can get internet, now can't deliver what they promised.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1060163 5-Jun-2014 23:39
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Demeter:
OMGpjay: There are densely populated suburbs within New Zealands main cities that might as well be considered "rural", this is what I mean by 3rd world amenities amongst 1st world living.


This is pretty off-topic, but could you name me an example? As someone who grew up in a 3rd world country I haven't come across any place in New Zealand that remotely matches the description '3rd world'.


Whangamomona





3281 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1060165 5-Jun-2014 23:40
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That's not really near anything, is it?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1060167 5-Jun-2014 23:41
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randomusername: So damn over it.
So what happened was before we moved house and slingshot said we can't get connected due to lack of ports, we rang around and asked all sorts of providers. Somehow Vodafone said they can get us connected with broadband. We asked them numerous times to 100% confirm that it was possible (as they were the last ones we rang out of many different ISPs who gave us the NO answer). But nope the girl on the phone insisted that we can get broadband at our new address. So we move house a couple of weeks later, ring up to get connected and sure enough "nope sorry, not enough ports". 
So by now we're fuming and trying to work something out with Vodafone.
They're now dragging it out like crazy, we were told we'd be called last friday but still nothing since then. We can't even move ISPs now as otherwise we'll lose our spot in port waiting so we have to have our home line with vodafone too. Stuck with them because they said we can get internet, now can't deliver what they promised.

Vodafone (or any other provider) can't magically make ports appear out of nowhere. It's not good you were guaranteed by them that it was possible though when it really isn't.

Any progress on using a 3G device (or wifi) yet?

830 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1060171 6-Jun-2014 00:15
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Demeter: I'm bowing out of this one because I'm not even sure what the argument is any more. Chorus is a business and expanding their copper network in rural areas at a massive expense compared to the return they can reasonably expect before the network becomes redundant is simply unviable. You're aware of this. Can you offer a solution?


I don't think you can actually classify a sense of entitlement as an argument :-)

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1060175 6-Jun-2014 00:56
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nakedmolerat: Whangamomona


Haha very good. No mobile coverage, I imagine no wired broadband. Two hours from anywhere. The pub and the new owners are nice though :)

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  Reply # 1060205 6-Jun-2014 07:56
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randomusername: So damn over it.
So what happened was before we moved house and slingshot said we can't get connected due to lack of ports, we rang around and asked all sorts of providers. Somehow Vodafone said they can get us connected with broadband. We asked them numerous times to 100% confirm that it was possible (as they were the last ones we rang out of many different ISPs who gave us the NO answer). But nope the girl on the phone insisted that we can get broadband at our new address. So we move house a couple of weeks later, ring up to get connected and sure enough "nope sorry, not enough ports". 
So by now we're fuming and trying to work something out with Vodafone.
They're now dragging it out like crazy, we were told we'd be called last friday but still nothing since then. We can't even move ISPs now as otherwise we'll lose our spot in port waiting so we have to have our home line with vodafone too. Stuck with them because they said we can get internet, now can't deliver what they promised.


And this would be a great time for that telco to start to offer a plan on their 3g/4g network for only "port waiters" that can't get a fixed line bb service, I don't know $100 for 50gigs a month but you have to be a port waiter to get this plan.

Maybe give them a call ask to talk to a manager and say that you would "accept" this until there is a port for you, after all you were told a number of times by their staff you could get a connection.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1060394 6-Jun-2014 14:11
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randomusername: So by now we're fuming and trying to work something out with Vodafone.
They're now dragging it out like crazy, we were told we'd be called last friday but still nothing since then. We can't even move ISPs now as otherwise we'll lose our spot in port waiting so we have to have our home line with vodafone too. Stuck with them because they said we can get internet, now can't deliver what they promised.


That's not good at all - would you mind please sending me your Vodafone customer info so I can find out whats happening here? Perhaps I can shed some light.

nakedmolerat: Whangamomona


Oh nice, I might have to visit that sometime - it's so hard to find a place off the grid in NZ. Rather than pointing out the obvious differences between the admittedly remote Whangamomona and a real 3rd world town in SA, I invite you to have a look at lovely Sutherland, S.A. Miles of nothing, and plenty of it. :P

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/ultimate-cc-road-trip-across-remote-south-africa-via-back-roads-in-a-1973-peugeot-404-wagon/

 

What are the roads like between here and Whangamomona  I wonder. :)




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1060404 6-Jun-2014 14:30
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Demeter: 

What are the roads like between here and Whangamomona  I wonder. :)


Windy (they may also be windy depending on the weather).

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1060425 6-Jun-2014 15:17
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maybe threads should have a "moral of the story" in this case would be don't trust what people say on the other end of the phone. feel so sorry for you!

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