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  Reply # 1063241 11-Jun-2014 10:47
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NonprayingMantis:
TimA:
NonprayingMantis:
And then there is the cost of the CPE that can actually handle 1Gbps speeds properly.  


Challenge accepted!




gigabit Wifi?  (not that gigabit wifi gives you gigabit speeds, but for a gigabit plan, it seems silly to be using anything less than that for wifi)


It can run 1600Mbp/s on 80Mhz




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  Reply # 1063245 11-Jun-2014 10:51
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Exciting day to be an Ultrafast Fibre-only RSP :)

Announcement to come later today but in short:

- 100/20 becomes our entry level plan, effective immediately.
- Gigabit for residential & business will be available from September.

The Gigabit plans coincide with a major network upgrade we've been planning for most of this year.

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  Reply # 1063258 11-Jun-2014 11:07
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So I suppose this is what everyone in hamilton is going to be like now tongue-out




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  Reply # 1063259 11-Jun-2014 11:09
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Andib: So I suppose this is what everyone in hamilton is going to be like now tongue-out



I can imagine a lot of people would but alas still no offerings (yet) from the big telcos

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  Reply # 1063265 11-Jun-2014 11:21
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myfullflavour: Exciting day to be an Ultrafast Fibre-only RSP :)

Announcement to come later today but in short:

- 100/20 becomes our entry level plan, effective immediately.
- Gigabit for residential & business will be available from September.

The Gigabit plans coincide with a major network upgrade we've been planning for most of this year.


How does that work when the plans don't launch until July?


Will you still retain your 300GB fair use policy on the 1Gb plan? Wouldn't take too much to chew through that.

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  Reply # 1063296 11-Jun-2014 12:12
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Quick back of the envelope calc and I reckon this would allow you to download 255TB per month running full speed 24x7 (assuming download speed of around 100MB/s and you could actually find a server to download from at that speed). 




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  Reply # 1063309 11-Jun-2014 12:28
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NonprayingMantis:
myfullflavour: Exciting day to be an Ultrafast Fibre-only RSP :)

Announcement to come later today but in short:

- 100/20 becomes our entry level plan, effective immediately.
- Gigabit for residential & business will be available from September.

The Gigabit plans coincide with a major network upgrade we've been planning for most of this year.


Will you still retain your 300GB fair use policy on the 1Gb plan? Wouldn't take too much to chew through that.


300GB has always been a soft-cap - we've got users significantly exceeding this but it isn't a problem because their usage is either data from within NZ, Sydney or off-peak.

We'll review the policy closer to September but we're not the ISP to go to if you're after thousands of gigs a month at a fixed under $150 / month price.


NonprayingMantis: How does that work when the plans don't launch until July?




Provisioning new sign-ups on 100/50 profiles in the interim.

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  Reply # 1063318 11-Jun-2014 12:37
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Behodar: I wonder whether Chorus will match this. Current Chorus wholesale price appears to be $275, but matching it wouldn't be great for the Gigatown initiative. Hmm...

Edit: Chorus plan is 1000 both ways. Not sure what the upload speed of UFF's new one is.


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to change with further testing.

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  Reply # 1063329 11-Jun-2014 12:47
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myfullflavour:
Behodar: I wonder whether Chorus will match this. Current Chorus wholesale price appears to be $275, but matching it wouldn't be great for the Gigatown initiative. Hmm...

Edit: Chorus plan is 1000 both ways. Not sure what the upload speed of UFF's new one is.


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to change with further testing.


the 128kbit upload really hurt on 8 megabit.  it seems all these new plans are capping upload speeds, which lessens the inherit benefits of fibre in being able to have offsite backup, cloud storage etc.

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  Reply # 1063330 11-Jun-2014 12:48
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surfisup1000: Quick back of the envelope calc and I reckon this would allow you to download 255TB per month running full speed 24x7 (assuming download speed of around 100MB/s and you could actually find a server to download from at that speed). 



i don't like the chances of getting more than around 800 megabit download speeds myself.  i expect most servers are only on gigabit atm and reasonably high chance of having someone else using it at the same time.

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  Reply # 1063334 11-Jun-2014 12:55
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mercutio:
surfisup1000: Quick back of the envelope calc and I reckon this would allow you to download 255TB per month running full speed 24x7 (assuming download speed of around 100MB/s and you could actually find a server to download from at that speed). 



i don't like the chances of getting more than around 800 megabit download speeds myself.  i expect most servers are only on gigabit atm and reasonably high chance of having someone else using it at the same time.


Gigabit customers are obviously going to have the best experience with content that is

a) cached locally at the ISP (Google/YouTube/Akamai/Netflix possibly next year if the rumours are true)
b) delivered from a server within New Zealand (assuming the backhaul is decent)
c) delivered from a server in Sydney (bandwidth to Australia is significantly cheaper)

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  Reply # 1063350 11-Jun-2014 13:35
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myfullflavour:
mercutio:
surfisup1000: Quick back of the envelope calc and I reckon this would allow you to download 255TB per month running full speed 24x7 (assuming download speed of around 100MB/s and you could actually find a server to download from at that speed). 



i don't like the chances of getting more than around 800 megabit download speeds myself.  i expect most servers are only on gigabit atm and reasonably high chance of having someone else using it at the same time.


Gigabit customers are obviously going to have the best experience with content that is

a) cached locally at the ISP (Google/YouTube/Akamai/Netflix possibly next year if the rumours are true)
b) delivered from a server within New Zealand (assuming the backhaul is decent)
c) delivered from a server in Sydney (bandwidth to Australia is significantly cheaper)


i'm not against having a connection that i'd be unable to max out in normal usage.  i had gigabit ethernet 13 years ago at home, and couldn't max it out back then at home, and it was still better than 100 megabit.

at the same time, i think the benefit of gigabit over 200 megabit won't be that great.   i suppose caches will really help, but it's getting to the point of neeeding to be ssd backed or in memory.

do you happen to know of any servers in NZ with more than 1 gigabit capacity without using link aggregation?  (as link aggregation means can't max out) 

also i think cpe's will struggle a bit, google with their gigabit initiative are doing hardware nat, but i think it still can't max out.  

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  Reply # 1063419 11-Jun-2014 15:00
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NonprayingMantis:
Offering Gb plans at $65 wholesale is all very well, but don't expect the retail price to be anything like that.

On top of that price, the ISP has to pay for all the backhaul, which for a Gb plan is going to be a shed load more.  Then there is the international capacity.

Whilst I'm not expecting ISPs to buy 1Gb of capacity for a 1Gb customer,  I would expect at least 8-10Mbs per customer to give a reasonably good experience on a 1Gb plan.  
Then there is all the other normal ISP overheads.

Just those things alone mean the retail price of a 1Gb plan is going to rock in somewhere around $300.  Anything less than that and it's being oversold.  It's nothing more than a 6 lane onramp leading onto a single lane motorway.  And then there is the cost of the CPE that can actually handle 1Gbps speeds properly.  


I'm afraid your comments here show you may not have knowledge or experience of how these things work out in decent sized networks.

On what basis do you even get to "8-10mbps per customer"?

Demand doesn't scale with caps or speed. It scales, on a large enough customer base, with evolution of OTT services and organic growth in use and content sizes. Additionally, when you make an access faster, people are using it less often, so doubling access speeds never means doubling of utilisation.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 1063430 11-Jun-2014 15:26
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Talkiet:
NonprayingMantis:
Offering Gb plans at $65 wholesale is all very well, but don't expect the retail price to be anything like that.

On top of that price, the ISP has to pay for all the backhaul, which for a Gb plan is going to be a shed load more.  Then there is the international capacity.

Whilst I'm not expecting ISPs to buy 1Gb of capacity for a 1Gb customer,  I would expect at least 8-10Mbs per customer to give a reasonably good experience on a 1Gb plan.  
Then there is all the other normal ISP overheads.

Just those things alone mean the retail price of a 1Gb plan is going to rock in somewhere around $300.  Anything less than that and it's being oversold.  It's nothing more than a 6 lane onramp leading onto a single lane motorway.  And then there is the cost of the CPE that can actually handle 1Gbps speeds properly.  


I'm afraid your comments here show you may not have knowledge or experience of how these things work out in decent sized networks.

On what basis do you even get to "8-10mbps per customer"?

Demand doesn't scale with caps or speed. It scales, on a large enough customer base, with evolution of OTT services and organic growth in use and content sizes. Additionally, when you make an access faster, people are using it less often, so doubling access speeds never means doubling of utilisation.

Cheers - N



if unlimited connections are ~$300 like he seems to be alluding to, then only businesses, apartment complexes etc are likely to take it up, so his numbers might not be too off.

what i think the actual plan with these fast plans though, is to be able to offer fast plans to people who don't need it.  i wouldn't be surprised if international speeds end up being capped slower, and/or blocking resell/businesses/heavy users from such unlimited plans.  it's not a bad thing in of itself.  but where it'd be really nifty is being able to do things like real time streaming of high definition video which 20 megabit upload should be fine for even with shared access.  

it's kind of hard to predict what usage will be like, .. and at the moment there aren't really services in new zealand to take advantage of such.  sure windows update may come through quicker, and a video card driver may download quicker.  although speed doesn't raise demand in of itself, demand can dictate spending more money on a faster plan, and users that currently have gigabit connections most likely have significant usage.

i do think it's more likely for residential gigabit plans they'll be more around $120 to $150, as there won't be significant uptake at a $300 price point. 

i think atm provisioning is more likely to be around 1 to 2 megabit per customer, as the users that would be likely to want to take up such plans are probably around the 300 to 500gb.  they're also likely to use the internet in evenings more i imagine.  and those numbers are completely made up.  and i think it's by sharing bandwidth between business and residential that a reasonable margin can be had.

i would be keen to hear what your take is though.

i think if high definition video watching takes off in new zealand, at reasonable bit rates of ~10megabit/sec, then there will be quite high usage, but atm netflix etc is low bitrate overseas, and not even here yet.  youtube is kind of high bandwidth at 1440p/4k resolutions, but the vast majority of videos aren't even 1080p.

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  Reply # 1063438 11-Jun-2014 15:35
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The Chours 1Gbps product is run on P2P fibre isn't it? That is very different to 1Gbps on GPON.

I wonder what CIR applies to these packages, 2Mbps? lol.....

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