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  Reply # 1064191 12-Jun-2014 16:08
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Does anyone have access to NBR? Anything interesting in this paywalled article?

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  Reply # 1064229 12-Jun-2014 17:10
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Behodar: Does anyone have access to NBR? Anything interesting in this paywalled article?


I would at work. 




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  Reply # 1064231 12-Jun-2014 17:13
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Chorus has posted a tweet.

We have been working with providers on how & when we launch Gig services across our entire fibre network. We expect to do so soon.

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  Reply # 1064537 12-Jun-2014 22:51
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myfullflavour:
Behodar: I wonder whether Chorus will match this. Current Chorus wholesale price appears to be $275, but matching it wouldn't be great for the Gigatown initiative. Hmm...

Edit: Chorus plan is 1000 both ways. Not sure what the upload speed of UFF's new one is.


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to change with further testing.


Wait what, 20Mbps up?

Jump in the time machine back to the 128k upload days. If this is true 1000/20 is going to look hilarious on a speed test. I can't comment how it will affect speed or usage of the plan however given I don't have that sort of data. However personally if I had this plan I would want minimum if 100Mbps up, otherwise I'd settle for lower download in favour of higher upload I think.

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  Reply # 1064544 12-Jun-2014 23:14
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Key question here is why do fibre and cable offerings still mimic the adsl ratio rather than sdsl anyway?

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  Reply # 1064548 12-Jun-2014 23:21
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PhantomNVD: Key question here is why do fibre and cable offerings still mimic the adsl ratio rather than sdsl anyway?


95% of users dont need the upload speeds...
With fibre it isnt like ADSL where it only has a small spectrum to use. Hence Asymmetrical.
Just a trend anyway.




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  Reply # 1064551 12-Jun-2014 23:37
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So nothing but bandwidth limiting limits a symmetrical fibre plan then?
Good to know, thanks!

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  Reply # 1064552 12-Jun-2014 23:41
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TimA:
PhantomNVD: Key question here is why do fibre and cable offerings still mimic the adsl ratio rather than sdsl anyway?


95% of users dont need the upload speeds...
With fibre it isnt like ADSL where it only has a small spectrum to use. Hence Asymmetrical.
Just a trend anyway.


people don't /need/ fibre. 

the idea behind using tax payer dollars to give fibre companys a free monopoly with restrictions to install fibre connections, afaik, is to be able to "boost" our economy, and enable users to take advantage of new technlogies.

fibre won't enable online watching of tv.  that already works with adsl.
fibre won't enable voice communication over the internet  that already works.

it will enable higher quality video communication.

but i seem to remember fibre being touted for things like not having to go to a doctor because you can "show" them what it looks like.  and high res real time video streaming is going to struggle at 10 megabit with current technology.  although you can download compressed movies at that kind of bitrate which aren't that bad, they're not real time encoded and so can compress better.

i don't really see how you can consider fibre or adsl small spectrum.  fibre is light, and adsl is sound.  (there may be a better word for it)  but both are high frequency, and could go higher with new developments etc.

the ratios seem to be an artificial limitation for the most part - but there is less bandwidth available for upload than download.  just not in anywhere near that kind of ratio, and only really in each gpon location, as 10 gigabit fibre etc is full duplex.

that said, it seems to be about price positioning.

there are plenty of reasonable predictable use cases which increasing upload speeds could easily help with.  like at the moment most phones seem to have around 8gb of storage capacity - if your phone was full, and you wanted to backup the whole of it to a remote location, 8gb of transfer at adsl speeds would take about 24 hours.  at 10 megabit it would take about 2 and a half hours, and at 100 megabit about quarter of an hour.  right now, apple phones often congest adsl connections badly because they try and sync things without the users beign aware, creating issues.  this could still happen on 10 megabit, but is way reduced on 100 megabit.

the thing is that storage utilisation is still going up, and it was a long time ago that people found 100 megabit slow for sharing files over local networks, so why should it still be considered fast over the internet.

if new zealand really wants to make strides we should be aiming for symmetric gigabit, but the closest that seems to be planned is 100/50.  and if 1000/20 is possible for residiential, then why isn't 1000/250 or such.  



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  Reply # 1064557 12-Jun-2014 23:58
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What is the theoretical maximum speed of the fiber we are installing?







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  Reply # 1064563 13-Jun-2014 00:02
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solaybro: What is the theoretical maximum speed of the fiber we are installing?


2.4/1 gigabit for the total gpon node i think.  but improvements to gpon could still happen.

http://fastnetnews.com/fiber-news/175-d/4883-gigabit-easy-with-gpon-and-10g-pon-for-decades

ther's already 10 gigabit gpon in development it seems.


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  Reply # 1064565 13-Jun-2014 00:09
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solaybro: What is the theoretical maximum speed of the fiber we are installing?


We don't know yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-optic_communication

Researchers at Bell Labs have reached internet speeds of over 100 petabits per second using fiber-optic communication.


As for the boxes at either end of the current fibre? That's called GPON. Each Optical Line Terminal (at the exchange etc) can manage 2.488 Gbit downstream and 1.244 Gbit upstream. That is then passively (as in the name) split between up to 64 customers. Offering gigabit speeds on GPON means they're unlikely to put more than 2 customers per OLT. I've sent them an email asking about exactly what they plan.

In the relatively near future, there is a direct and compatible upgrade to GPON called 10GPON, offering 10gbit down and 2.5gbit up per OLT. It operates on different frequencies to GPON, so both systems can exist on the same line. Field trials of this tech were completed in 2010, so the tech may appear here some time soon... not that I've heard anything about that.

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  Reply # 1064566 13-Jun-2014 00:12
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ripdog:
solaybro: What is the theoretical maximum speed of the fiber we are installing?


We don't know yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-optic_communication

Researchers at Bell Labs have reached internet speeds of over 100 petabits per second using fiber-optic communication.


As for the boxes at either end of the current fibre? That's called GPON. Each Optical Line Terminal (at the exchange etc) can manage 2.488 Gbit downstream and 1.244 Gbit upstream. That is then passively (as in the name) split between up to 64 customers. Offering gigabit speeds on GPON means they're unlikely to put more than 2 customers per OLT. I've sent them an email asking about exactly what they plan.

In the relatively near future, there is a direct and compatible upgrade to GPON called 10GPON, offering 10gbit down and 2.5gbit up per OLT. It operates on different frequencies to GPON, so both systems can exist on the same line. Field trials of this tech were completed in 2010, so the tech may appear here some time soon... not that I've heard anything about that.


i don't see why they can't just oversubscribe it myself.  i don't know how much control they get at various points, and i'm aware they have to maintain that cir thing.  but in "normal operation" without any qos, it's probably fine most of the time, so just looking at the qos standards they have to adhere to could make sense, unless there are actual complaints.

http://pmcs.com/resources/whitepapers/gpon-dba/


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  Reply # 1064568 13-Jun-2014 00:16
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mercutio:
ripdog:
solaybro: What is the theoretical maximum speed of the fiber we are installing?


We don't know yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-optic_communication

Researchers at Bell Labs have reached internet speeds of over 100 petabits per second using fiber-optic communication.


As for the boxes at either end of the current fibre? That's called GPON. Each Optical Line Terminal (at the exchange etc) can manage 2.488 Gbit downstream and 1.244 Gbit upstream. That is then passively (as in the name) split between up to 64 customers. Offering gigabit speeds on GPON means they're unlikely to put more than 2 customers per OLT. I've sent them an email asking about exactly what they plan.

In the relatively near future, there is a direct and compatible upgrade to GPON called 10GPON, offering 10gbit down and 2.5gbit up per OLT. It operates on different frequencies to GPON, so both systems can exist on the same line. Field trials of this tech were completed in 2010, so the tech may appear here some time soon... not that I've heard anything about that.


i don't see why they can't just oversubscribe it myself.  


They'll probably have to, to keep the costs down. I'm no ISP tech, so I have no actual clue about usage patterns and the economics of UFB, but I'm fairly sure that the current 100mbit speeds were chosed because they allow 24 customers per OLT without any oversubscribing. Of course, post-100mbit speeds were always planned, which would require oversubscribing or less customers/OLT (or even 10GPON), so I don't know what the plans are or were around that.

I know the NBN promised gigabit speeds over GPON by simply installing more OLTs. It'd be pretty embarassing for UFF if people jumped on the gigabit plans and they didn't actually deliver gigabit speeds on any ISP...

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  Reply # 1064642 13-Jun-2014 07:18
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PhantomNVD: So nothing but bandwidth limiting limits a symmetrical fibre plan then?
Good to know, thanks!


GPON is not symmetrical, it's asymmetrical.


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  Reply # 1064644 13-Jun-2014 07:21
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ripdog:
As for the boxes at either end of the current fibre? That's called GPON. Each Optical Line Terminal (at the exchange etc) can manage 2.488 Gbit downstream and 1.244 Gbit upstream. That is then passively (as in the name) split between up to 64 customers. Offering gigabit speeds on GPON means they're unlikely to put more than 2 customers per OLT. I've sent them an email asking about exactly what they plan.



Think more like 16 users, with 2 users you'd be paying a wayyyyy lot more for a GPON connection.

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