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1387 posts

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  #1065060 13-Jun-2014 17:25
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raytaylor:
eXDee:
myfullflavour:
Behodar: I wonder whether Chorus will match this. Current Chorus wholesale price appears to be $275, but matching it wouldn't be great for the Gigatown initiative. Hmm...

Edit: Chorus plan is 1000 both ways. Not sure what the upload speed of UFF's new one is.


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to change with further testing.


Wait what, 20Mbps up?

Jump in the time machine back to the 128k upload days.


Yep I just ran a quick calculation- If 128kbit could get you 4.5mbit down, then you are going to require closer to 29mbits to get the full gigabit of download speed.
So I think the marketing department has just made an announcement without talking to the techs first. Though as they say, they are going to do some testing to fine tune the product


it's around 3.5 megabit without SACK from memory.  windows may have been worse with using sack than linux, but on linux having more than one flow at once or slow senders could get in the way of sack timeouts. (it acks every secnd packet, but only if it comes in quick enough after the first)

these problems aren't likely to be as bad now as peoples general sending speeds are better, and SACK is implemented everywhere.   the problem more is with combined upload.  

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  #1065063 13-Jun-2014 17:26
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raytaylor:
eXDee:
myfullflavour:
Behodar: I wonder whether Chorus will match this. Current Chorus wholesale price appears to be $275, but matching it wouldn't be great for the Gigatown initiative. Hmm...

Edit: Chorus plan is 1000 both ways. Not sure what the upload speed of UFF's new one is.


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to change with further testing.


Wait what, 20Mbps up?

Jump in the time machine back to the 128k upload days.


Yep I just ran a quick calculation- If 128kbit could get you 4.5mbit down, then you are going to require closer to 29mbits to get the full gigabit of download speed.
So I think the marketing department has just made an announcement without talking to the techs first. Though as they say, they are going to do some testing to fine tune the product


Except the 4.5mbit figure always bandied about is Just Plain Wrong.

Cheers n




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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


 
 
 
 


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  #1065066 13-Jun-2014 17:28
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TimA:
PhantomNVD: Key question here is why do fibre and cable offerings still mimic the adsl ratio rather than sdsl anyway?


95% of users dont need the upload speeds...
With fibre it isnt like ADSL where it only has a small spectrum to use. Hence Asymmetrical.
Just a trend anyway.


GEPON as it currently stands does have a fixed almost symmetrical bandwidth on older equipment (so either 1.25gbit down/1gbit up)
The newer stuff is 2.5gbit down / 1gbit up.

The best way I can describe it is that with ADSL, you have a fixed radio band in the copper that can be used, so they prioritise more frequencies for downstream data. Its done out of necessity.

With the fibre, they can push data in both directions using different colors of laser light, but by using a cheaper laser for the upstream, they can make the ONT units in each house cheaper to produce so you get the same result - Asymmetric speeds. 

It comes down to equipment cost, and backward compatibility.





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




1387 posts

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  #1065068 13-Jun-2014 17:30
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Talkiet:
raytaylor:
eXDee:
myfullflavour:
Behodar: I wonder whether Chorus will match this. Current Chorus wholesale price appears to be $275, but matching it wouldn't be great for the Gigatown initiative. Hmm...

Edit: Chorus plan is 1000 both ways. Not sure what the upload speed of UFF's new one is.


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to change with further testing.


Wait what, 20Mbps up?

Jump in the time machine back to the 128k upload days.


Yep I just ran a quick calculation- If 128kbit could get you 4.5mbit down, then you are going to require closer to 29mbits to get the full gigabit of download speed.
So I think the marketing department has just made an announcement without talking to the techs first. Though as they say, they are going to do some testing to fine tune the product


Except the 4.5mbit figure always bandied about is Just Plain Wrong.

Cheers n


i imagine cell overhead may be complicating matters too, but i can't even remember what bitrate adsl it had, .. do you have any numbers for how much a normal non window scaling no timestamps no sack can do on 7616 downstream and whatever was normal for upload on those connections.

actually from memory upload was 160 on 128kbit.  and it'll use two cells per ack packet i imagine.

for anyone who's interested, i found this on google:
http://wand.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~513/2006/readings/adsl-2.pdf

which seems to suggest that pppoa/vc-mux has 96 bytes overhead, but that routed ip on vc-mux would have 48 bytes.  cell sizes are 53 bytes with 5 byte header.  so it's more akin to 64kbit upload of acks.. 

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  #1065072 13-Jun-2014 17:38
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colinbowern:
mercutio: people don't /need/ fibre.


Throw 4K video into the mix and you may just very well need it as ADSL2+ is just a bit too close to the bitrate required.  Then again, we'll probably need a Netflix content server in the country before that becomes a reality too. :)


I predict the regional internet exchanges will have netflix caches (https://www.netflix.com/openconnect) but if i remember right, you also need something like a constant 100mbit to feed it with new content updates etc. The hardware appliance looks like a backblaze pod which i think is pretty cool.

I also suspect vodafone is using chorus' multicast function to provide the sky television over fibre service, and like the satellite i guess they can dynamically change the bitrates between channels or programmes so it should be able to balance out quite nicely.

I cant remember what the specific SD/HD bitrates are, but if there was a budget of 400mbits on 2.5gbit node, then thats hardly noticable when split between 32 users.
400mbits will get you 50 channels at 4mbits plus 20 channels at HD 10mbits. Dont know the bitrates with 4k but multicast should make the delivery still very efficient.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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  #1065323 14-Jun-2014 08:02
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Yes Vodafone do use multicast. My understanding is their total multicast bandwidth for all channels is just over 800Mbps. 

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  #1065326 14-Jun-2014 08:09
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bbqroast: Anyone got an idea of what type of network they're running for last mile.

From what I understand Chorus runs GPON with 2.4/1.2 gbps connected to a number of houses (around 30?). Obviously, that might not work for gigabit connections, whats UFF using?. 


Chorus splits depend on the year of deployment as the architecture has changed significantly with the move from cabinets to ABFATs deeper into the node. Current architecture revolves around 16 way splits which can be easily changed and also allows P2P to be easily offered as well.

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