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  Reply # 1094050 23-Jul-2014 10:00
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It's interesting to see the latest Chorus stats.

With the proposed changes to UBA and EUBA customers will be dimensioned at 150kbps for UBA and 250kbps for EUBA. Current average usage is 75kbps for UBA and 200kbps for EUBA. The new Boost offerings will offer 5Mbps (ADSL2+) and 10Mbps (VDSL2) per user dimensioning.

The commerce commission regulated offering requires 32kbps to be sustained over a 15 minute average - it really shows how our regulators have their head in the sand when it comes to their regulated offering.



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  Reply # 1094056 23-Jul-2014 10:11
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TimA: Chorus wouldn't do anything intentionally to make a connection worse. Assuming that is ludicrous.

Or would they?

"Telecom said Chorus planned to impose an "artificial cap" of 250 kilobits-per-second on the average throughput of its regulated copper broadband service in order to make new "premium" products it announced in May more attractive. Telecom said the move would significantly degrade the performance of regulated copper broadband services, the price of which is set by the Commerce Commission."

Stuff story - 22 July 2014

I'm in a rural area north of Dunedin. We have no VDSL or UFB and a Chorus employee who was installed UFB at the school 1klm up the road told me there would never be USB in my small settlement as the cost per house would be too high.

While I'm not unhappy with my current 5.55Mbps download and 0.69Mbps upload, if I have my calculations right, Chorus are proposing to reduce my download speed by a factor of more than 20x (to just 250 kilobits per second) which is going back to dialup days. Unless they can offer me at least VDSL I'll be stuck with this relatively slow connection forever.

This latest ploy may be a way for Chorus to get around the Commerce Commission's price caps, but it stinks.

[Thanks to Aardvark for the initial link]

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1094065 23-Jul-2014 10:24
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DigiDog:
While I'm not unhappy with my current 5.55Mbps download and 0.69Mbps upload, if I have my calculations right, Chorus are proposing to reduce my download speed by a factor of more than 20x (to just 250 kilobits per second) which is going back to dialup days. Unless they can offer me at least VDSL I'll be stuck with this relatively slow connection forever.



You're completely and utterly incorrect and totally misunderstanding what this handover dimensioning means.

The proposed changes will result in no difference at all based upon current usage. It will not result in degraded performance in any way.

Chorus are going to dimension UBA to 150kbps and EUBA to 250kbps - this is far above the required 32kbps that the regulated product offering requires them to deliver to customers. Average usage at present for UBA is 75kbps and EUBA is 200kbps.







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  Reply # 1094068 23-Jul-2014 10:26
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Would you care to enlighten me?

[Edit: I see you've now updated your post thanks]

Are you saying that during busy times with loads of other people sharing my ISP connection, that I won't see any downgrade in service at all?

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  Reply # 1094070 23-Jul-2014 10:28
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DigiDog: Would you care to enlighten me?

[Edit: I see you've now updated your post thanks]

Are you saying that during busy times with loads of other people sharing my ISP connection, that I won't see any downgrade in service at all?


Based upon current usage, none whatsoever.



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  Reply # 1094073 23-Jul-2014 10:30
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If Chorus on the other hand decided to play tough and enforce the 32kbps dimensioning that the Commerce Commission regulated product requires them to offer we'd basically see an overnight meltdown of xDSL in New Zealand.



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  Reply # 1094108 23-Jul-2014 11:08
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I've been reading, with delight, the submissions on the ComCom site re the latest Chorus Boost offerings.  What really stands out is;

 

  • We expect that handovers higher than the 250kbps would be ideal candidates for Boost. However we acknowledge that you may choose to keep them on the Basic UBA service. In that case, any handover that is in excess of 250kbps x number of users will be managed down gradually over a six month period.

I find it interesting that they are proposing to "manage" the network down, so that user experience WILL decline.  It also states that Basic UBA ATM handovers are already managed in this manner albeit at a pitiful 75kbps rate that they are proposing to increase to 150kbps.

As we all know we are consuming more data, Chorus show this in their submissing although don't qualify it with any detail.  Other submitters have comented doubling of data usage in the next twelve months is expected.  I'd agree with this considering the Telecom/Spark offering, Vodafone TV and potenitally yet to be confirmed Netflix.

The latest TrueNet report on Rural Broadband Users service delivery is a really good read...

Tim

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  Reply # 1094416 23-Jul-2014 18:52
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As I asked earlier, do you have a "plan b" if nothing comes of your petition?

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  Reply # 1094454 23-Jul-2014 19:28
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NZtimbo:
I find it interesting that they are proposing to "manage" the network down, so that user experience WILL decline.  It also states that Basic UBA ATM handovers are already managed in this manner albeit at a pitiful 75kbps rate that they are proposing to increase to 150kbps.


Based on current usage the user experience will not be affected.

The issue is a much bigger one however - why should Chorus provide a rate higher than what they're legally obliged to provide? Everybody here except for the Commerce Commission agrees it should. be higher.

BUBA limitations also exist because of the architecture of the ATM network which is very different to EUBA.




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  Reply # 1094471 23-Jul-2014 19:54
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quickymart: As I asked earlier, do you have a "plan b" if nothing comes of your petition?


I think its called RBI and/or WISP.



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  Reply # 1094544 23-Jul-2014 21:49
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Plan B, isn't there a movie about that...

Until I have a demo of Wireless RBI there will be no going there, my Vodafone mobile drops connection in places around the house, while having a yagi on the roof may help I ain't drilling a hole to find out...

Tim

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  Reply # 1097581 29-Jul-2014 00:52
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Rural Dunedin communities, hot under the collar over being denied access to ultra-fast rural broadband, will air grievances at a public meeting in Outram tonight.

 

The community-led meeting, supported by Labour's ICT spokeswoman Clare Curran, will thrash out solutions to improving internet speeds and reliability in Outram, a rural community near Mosgiel on the outskirts of Dunedin, after residents'  agitation on poor connectivity.

 

“Recently, Outram residents launched a petition calling on Parliament to urge to Government to include Outram into the Ultra-Fast Broadband project," Curran said. The petition was delivered to the Office of the Clerk of the House and was be tabled in Parliament.

 

Curran said of the 708 people currently living in Outram 367 signed this petition.

www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60359711/rural-residents-to-air-broadband-issues.html

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  Reply # 1097629 29-Jul-2014 08:03
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So Clare Curran is now telling everybody that the community agreed on their own community based solution. What exactly is it going to involve?

I started discussing this way back at the start of the thread - sometimes people have to step up and take responsibility, but more importantly accept that they live in a rural area and the costs of delivering a product can be significant. They also need to accept that paying a price premium for a product is sometimes necessary.

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  Reply # 1097673 29-Jul-2014 09:13
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Some of these comments saying my speedtest is fine, you can browse pages, listen to local radio etc.   Its not actually possible to do multiple things at once.  In terms of gaming the ping climbs for some reason from say 40 to Auckland to 100 or more with stuttering etc.

This is the thing, with the traditional one computer in the house and just browsing a few web pages and email you could get away with 0.5mb but modern life does not work like that.   I can get 3g just where I am, thats about 3mb at best and is an option but an expensive one.

One question I have put to Amy Andrews (waiting for a reply) is how come you are funding UFB to peoples houses, where one install can cost $10k (drilling 100m up a driveway, through bedrock etc) when you could upgrade rural cabinet (our local one is 40k to upgrade) or contribute and see way more happy people and more votes swung your way!  

I do believe people should chip in though.  My feeling is Chorus should upgrade the cabinet and the charge a rural connection fee appropriate.   When you build a new house in the rural sector you have to pay for a transformer/cable etc/trenching so same for internet.
Charge $3-5k for VDSL  $1-2 k for ADSL2 options and $500 for ADSL1 as long as they give you enough bandwidth so congestion is not an issue.  


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  Reply # 1097737 29-Jul-2014 10:21
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hotrok:
I do believe people should chip in though.  My feeling is Chorus should upgrade the cabinet and the charge a rural connection fee appropriate.  


That would be a great solution. Unfortunately we have rural people who are staunch in their view that they don't want to pay any more, and have a law that says Chorus aren't allowed to do that.

This is where community based solutions come in. Buy backhaul from an ISP, lease space from Chorus and buy your own DSLAM and offer VDSL2 to everybody. The only stumbling block is price - when people aren't willing to pay any more for a great product than they are for a poor product then it's not possible for such a project to get off the ground.


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