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  Reply # 1067644 17-Jun-2014 15:59
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NonprayingMantis: you need to be careful about that 'Fair Use' policy.

Orcon had to remove it from their unlimited plan under threat of the comcom, and no other ISP has it.

That suggests to me that having a fair use policy on an unlimited plan probably breaches the fair trading act.

You might be small enough to slip under the comcom's radar for now, but not for ever....


Our marketing has always been "unmetered" not "unlimited".

The service is unmetered from a billing perspective. We never charge for excess data. It's not unlimited in terms of download the internet and expect a consistent service all month long.

Our contracts have always been up-front about the fair use policy as well.

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  Reply # 1067741 17-Jun-2014 17:23
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Oh, that's one thing I wanted to ask. Do you know what the upload speed is on the gigabit plan? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, and UFF hasn't replied to my email from a week ago. Also, do you know how many customers per OLT there will be, assuming all customers are on the gigabit plan?



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  Reply # 1067754 17-Jun-2014 17:33
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ripdog: Oh, that's one thing I wanted to ask. Do you know what the upload speed is on the gigabit plan? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, and UFF hasn't replied to my email from a week ago. Also, do you know how many customers per OLT there will be, assuming all customers are on the gigabit plan?


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to further testing.

We're expecting this will be bumped up a bit.

I don't believe the numbers of customers per OLT changes with the new plan.

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  Reply # 1067926 17-Jun-2014 21:40
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myfullflavour:
ripdog: Oh, that's one thing I wanted to ask. Do you know what the upload speed is on the gigabit plan? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, and UFF hasn't replied to my email from a week ago. Also, do you know how many customers per OLT there will be, assuming all customers are on the gigabit plan?


At this stage 20Mbps upload, subject to further testing.

We're expecting this will be bumped up a bit.

I don't believe the numbers of customers per OLT changes with the new plan.


You're right to put that provisional label on the upload speed, because that is a f'n joke. I doubt you'd even be able to saturate that downstream due to TCP replies clogging the tube. Who could possibly look at that 1000/20 plan for 5 seconds and think that was a good idea?! I thought it was odd that a 200/20 plan was appearing as well (100/20 at least makes sense as a baseline) but really, who stole all the upload bandwidth? Surely a 1000/500 plan is more reasonable?

The customers/OLT ratio is concerning too. AFAIK it's currently 24 each to all 100/50 uncontested for every customer, all but guaranteeing an excellent experience - backhaul issues notwithstanding, of course. So what's going to happen the first time an OLT is loaded with 24 gigabit customers, and "gigabit" connections start slowing down by a factor of 10 during peak times? I know oversubscribing always happens on international links, but this is the first time I've seen such ludicrous oversubscribing right on the local loop. At least with conklin connections, the ISP has the honesty to tell you that they have no clue what speed you'll actually get. Perhaps these new 'gigabit' connections should be sold as "Line speed fibre! (Up to 1000mbit/s)."

I'm glad UFF is putting gigabit connections on the table, but it really seems like they're going to be selling a product they can't reasonably provide. IANAL, but it smells like a false advertising suit to me, unless it's clearly marked as a heavily oversubscribed service to the end user.

Oh, and I understand PPPoE tends to become impractical after 100mbit/s. I know the ASUS RT68U, the fastest retail router on the market last I checked, can only manage just over 200mbit/s using PPPoE with hardware acceleration on. No doubt that is an unoptimized implementation, but I think it speaks to the overhead that PPPoE introduces. Do FFM use PPPoE, and if so, do you have a router capable of gigabit PPPoE, or will you be transitioning away from PPPoE for gigabit connections?

(I'm sorry for the tone of this post, it's not directed at you, mate. I know you didn't make these decisions.)



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  Reply # 1067942 17-Jun-2014 22:04
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ripdog: Perhaps these new 'gigabit' connections should be sold as "Line speed fibre! (Up to 1000mbit/s)."

I'm glad UFF is putting gigabit connections on the table, but it really seems like they're going to be selling a product they can't reasonably provide.


We're expecting uptake on the 1Gbps option to be similar to our current "Home Business" product priced at $129, which accounts for about 30% of all residential connections.

If the same figures apply to OLT distribution, you'll only get a handful of 1Gbps customers per OLT. Unlikely they'll all be exhausting the 1Gbps at the same time.

UFF are making it clear this is a "best efforts" residential service.

ripdog: Oh, and I understand PPPoE tends to become impractical after 100mbit/s. I know the ASUS RT68U, the fastest retail router on the market last I checked, can only manage just over 200mbit/s using PPPoE with hardware acceleration on. No doubt that is an unoptimized implementation, but I think it speaks to the overhead that PPPoE introduces. Do FFM use PPPoE, and if so, do you have a router capable of gigabit PPPoE, or will you be transitioning away from PPPoE for gigabit connections?


We don't do PPPoE, we predicted PPPoE would be more trouble than the benefits we gained from it when we designed our fibre network early last year.



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  Reply # 1071120 20-Jun-2014 16:40
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nitrotech: Hi Jesse,

Just interested in what sort of international capacity you think you'll need to start offering these Gigabit plans.

I would imagine that the retail cost of the gigabit plans would be significant based on the cost of international?


To give you an idea of the capacity upgrades going on right now. Peak time test to Sydney:



It's the UFF speed policy on our office 100/50 plan at the moment that is the limiting factor!

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