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  Reply # 1095651 25-Jul-2014 14:36
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Juha's POV - makes a good read.

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  Reply # 1095688 25-Jul-2014 15:31
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sbiddle:  It's about time the Commerce Commission set in place a regulated product that's designed for the internet of today, not the internet of 2004. 


Which is why I reckon all the UFB money should've been spent on rural subscribers, rather than city dwellers who already have plenty of options. ;-)




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  Reply # 1095701 25-Jul-2014 15:50
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sbiddle: I'll go back a few steps again.

If dimensioning had been introduced as part of the EUBA deployment as it was a BUBA equivalent service, would we be having this discussion right now? Are Chorus at fault here for not introducing dimensioning earlier?



We would be having a slightly different conversation about a monopoly getting away with artificial scarcity due to an ineffectual regulator.

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  Reply # 1095703 25-Jul-2014 15:52
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Zeon:

Yea sot he ComCom shouldn't have pushed for lower pricing and Chorus would probably have not done anything beyond the status quo....


Chorus knew the pricing was going to change to cost plus (instead of retail minus) years ago, before they tendered for UFB.



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  Reply # 1095809 25-Jul-2014 18:56
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Dratsab: Juha's POV - makes a good read.



^ This.


He sums it up quite nicely.

"Chorus seems to be approaching being an infrastructure monopoly in 2014 by rubbing up its wholesale providers and their customers the wrong way. It might do better by accepting the fact that there's no going back to the past, and work on understanding what is actually expected of Chorus, rather than being tricky."



Chorus, even under Telecom in the past has had a good run, charged at the time what was a reasonable(ish) price for its land line services. Now its time to get with the times and accept that it is required to drop the price for its copper services in line with the rest of the world.

It would be great if they could do this without pissing the entire industry off.

I mean who really wants to be NZs most hated company?




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  Reply # 1095866 25-Jul-2014 20:35
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If chorus are working within stupid regulations to maximize value for their shareholders then they are operating correctly. They are not a charity.

Blame the comcon for the stupid specs on connections. chorus are offering a better alternative to it that might cost a little bit more for something that works better for some people. That is choice and it is a good thing to have. Cheap possibly not quick enough sometimes broadband or a better performing connection at a higher cost. What is not to like there?




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  Reply # 1095969 26-Jul-2014 09:04
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In a similar vein (sort of) - slow internet on fibre?

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  Reply # 1095973 26-Jul-2014 09:11
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quickymart: In a similar vein (sort of) - slow internet on fibre?


Very, very different.

We also have the fundamental issue to address where many people assume that their best effort home connection will get 100% of the line speed 24/7

We also have the problem (in some cases) of routers with 100Mbps FE ports being used for 100Mbps connections which can only deliver ~92Mbps. This is nobody's problem. It's the real world.

If you want line speed 24/7 buy a CIR for 10x the price..



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  Reply # 1096142 26-Jul-2014 14:25
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Bah, GZ ate my earlier response.

Anyway, worth considering: copper broadband doesn't have long to go before UFB FTTP takes over in many areas. That's the plan at least and yes, it could go awry, but as far as Telecom's concerned, unbundling exchanges and cabinets over the next five years isn't viable. I would imagine Chorus is aware of this.

Telecom's point is that there's no improvement to Boost HD that brings DLM to ADSL2+, or Boost VDSL over the regulated product. The new commercial products will be more expensive than the regulated one, that's it. Also, Chorus wanted to can the regulated VDSL2 completely, but had to change its mind so it introduced the 250Kbps per user and month dimensioning for it instead. That amounts to 81-85GB a month per user.

Chorus also said last year that it wasn't going to dimension EUBA the same as BUBA. Here's a bit from Telecom's ComCom submission on Boost HD and Boost VDSL:

 

 

 

 

     

  1.  

    Throughput commitments. Chorus has undertaken to provide sufficient capacity in the network to ensure, on a best efforts basis, average minimum throughput of 5Mbps over a 15 minute period. It is still not clear to us what the substance of this commitment is. Throughput is a function of actual capacity deployed and overall customer demand. It does not reflect peak or even sustained speeds that customers can expect to see when using their broadband services – it is a measure of the average broadband usage in a particular part of the network/country in a 15 minute period.

     

    Best practice network management and dimensioning methods recognise this, and as a result, broadband networks are dimensioned statistically to at least provide for expected and forecast demand, and to avoid congestion at that level of demand. As demand grows, best practice network operators augment capacity in their network ahead of it – with the objective of always avoiding network congestion and degraded customer service experience. So what does a 5Mbps throughput guarantee mean? We know that actual customer demand is not averaging 5Mbps, and will not do so for some time yet. So Chorus’ commitment cannot refer to actual demand today. Chorus’ commitment may mean that it is committing to augment capacity across its existing network now such that it could manage every customer streaming a constant 5Mbps at the same time today, but that seems an unlikely and inefficient use of Chorus’ capital. This leaves us with the possibility that Chorus is committing to continue augmenting its network capacity in future until demand grows to the point where average throughput is at 5Mbps. If that is the substance of the commitment, then we consider it not materially different to how Chorus manages its network and its EUBA service today, and entirely consistent with the expectations we have for it under the existing UBA STD.

     

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1105541 9-Aug-2014 18:21
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Oh, my heart bleeds for Telecom. Not.

The gross hypocrisy of their complaint is mind boggling.

This is a company who for years gouged huge profits on doing exactly what they are accusing Chorus of.

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  Reply # 1106432 11-Aug-2014 13:52
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SaltyNZ: Which is why I reckon all the UFB money should've been spent on rural subscribers, rather than city dwellers who already have plenty of options. ;-)


Ah, you got the RBI.  The city dwellers are stuck with 100 Mbps (though looking more like 1 Gbps) speeds, while the rural people get 5 Mbps for 85% of the people in rural areas.  The other 15% get, well, dial-up (or satellite).  That's the rural appeasement sent through at the same time as UFB.

You options are 
1) move
2) vote (well, given the quality of options, you'd need to start a party and run to then vote for yourself to do something about it).



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  Reply # 1106506 11-Aug-2014 14:42
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*Sigh*

Yeah, I know. :-/

I don't trust Kim Dotcom as far as I can throw him, but that's OK because I don't trust Hone even that much.




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