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  Reply # 1100703 2-Aug-2014 16:47
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sbiddle:
charsleysa:
While I don't agree that we should be trying to push out 1Gbps to everyone and that CIR doesn't matter, I do agree that the government should have gone with a better technology for fibre by utilizing 10G-EPON from the get go.


So you'd be happy that UFB would still be stuck in the design phase (rather than having been deployed for 3 years) and that both deployment and end user costs would be significantly higher?




Why would it still be stuck in the design phase? EPON has a simpler design with compatibility using existing Ethernet gear.




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  Reply # 1100717 2-Aug-2014 17:00
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charsleysa:
sbiddle:
charsleysa:
While I don't agree that we should be trying to push out 1Gbps to everyone and that CIR doesn't matter, I do agree that the government should have gone with a better technology for fibre by utilizing 10G-EPON from the get go.


So you'd be happy that UFB would still be stuck in the design phase (rather than having been deployed for 3 years) and that both deployment and end user costs would be significantly higher?




Why would it still be stuck in the design phase? EPON has a simpler design with compatibility using existing Ethernet gear.


Because 10G EPON hasn't yet his mass market. It's no good using a technology that is realistically a year or two away from being deployed on any large scale. That's 4-5 years after UFB started being deployed.

10G EPON network architecture would also require significantly more ducting and fibre to be laid, not to mention a significant increase of cost of the equipment over regular GPON which has a very straight forward upgrade path to 10GPON when the need arises.


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  Reply # 1100765 2-Aug-2014 18:13
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Isn't the real issue here the data cap on a 1Gbps plan?

There's no point offering users a 20GB plan at that speed, but the risk of offering unlimited data at 1Gbps is huge. Sure there are terms and conditions, but ISPs would need to cover themselves against someone leaving the tap on at full bore for 31 days and downloading the theoretical maximum of 2.62974e6 (seconds in a month) x 1Gb - I think that would run to Exabytes. 





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  Reply # 1100775 2-Aug-2014 18:25
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sbiddle:
charsleysa:
sbiddle:
charsleysa:
While I don't agree that we should be trying to push out 1Gbps to everyone and that CIR doesn't matter, I do agree that the government should have gone with a better technology for fibre by utilizing 10G-EPON from the get go.


So you'd be happy that UFB would still be stuck in the design phase (rather than having been deployed for 3 years) and that both deployment and end user costs would be significantly higher?




Why would it still be stuck in the design phase? EPON has a simpler design with compatibility using existing Ethernet gear.


Because 10G EPON hasn't yet his mass market. It's no good using a technology that is realistically a year or two away from being deployed on any large scale. That's 4-5 years after UFB started being deployed.

10G EPON network architecture would also require significantly more ducting and fibre to be laid, not to mention a significant increase of cost of the equipment over regular GPON which has a very straight forward upgrade path to 10GPON when the need arises.



Those are good points, but what if UFB had started with 1G EPON with the ducting and fibre laid so it could be easily migrated to 10G EPON?
Wouldn't EPON have been the better solution due to its use of Ethernet and it's compatibility with Ethernet gear?




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  Reply # 1100776 2-Aug-2014 18:26
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billbennett: Isn't the real issue here the data cap on a 1Gbps plan?

There's no point offering users a 20GB plan at that speed, but the risk of offering unlimited data at 1Gbps is huge. Sure there are terms and conditions, but ISPs would need to cover themselves against someone leaving the tap on at full bore for 31 days and downloading the theoretical maximum of 2.62974e6 (seconds in a month) x 1Gb - I think that would run to Exabytes. 

It's 334.8 TB in 31 days at the full 1 Gb/s. Very few people would have the storage capacity to download that much in a month (and the likes of video streaming would still max out at about 10 Mb/s so that wouldn't chew through any more data that it does now).

charsleysa: Wouldn't EPON have been the better solution due to its use of Ethernet and it's compatibility with Ethernet gear?

It may be better for technical reasons, but it's worse when you consider cost.

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  Reply # 1100778 2-Aug-2014 18:28
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sbiddle: 
The US has already gone this long before us. Google Fiber 1Gbps is standard 2.4Ghz GPON with 32 way splitters.
 


I think you mean 2.4Gb/s GPON, not 2.4Ghz wink




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  Reply # 1100796 2-Aug-2014 18:58
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Behodar:
billbennett: Isn't the real issue here the data cap on a 1Gbps plan?

There's no point offering users a 20GB plan at that speed, but the risk of offering unlimited data at 1Gbps is huge. Sure there are terms and conditions, but ISPs would need to cover themselves against someone leaving the tap on at full bore for 31 days and downloading the theoretical maximum of 2.62974e6 (seconds in a month) x 1Gb - I think that would run to Exabytes. 

It's 334.8 TB in 31 days at the full 1 Gb/s. Very few people would have the storage capacity to download that much in a month (and the likes of video streaming would still max out at about 10 Mb/s so that wouldn't chew through any more data that it does now).

charsleysa: Wouldn't EPON have been the better solution due to its use of Ethernet and it's compatibility with Ethernet gear?

It may be better for technical reasons, but it's worse when you consider cost.


Is the cost higher? I thought it was lower since Ethernet gear is a fraction of the cost of ATM gear.

Here's on of the sources I used to educate myself on some of the differences
http://okiafcea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/eponvsgpon.pdf




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  Reply # 1100835 2-Aug-2014 19:45
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naggyman:
sbiddle: 
The US has already gone this long before us. Google Fiber 1Gbps is standard 2.4Ghz GPON with 32 way splitters.
 


I think you mean 2.4Gb/s GPON, not 2.4Ghz wink


Haven't you heard of wireless GPON? smile

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  Reply # 1100836 2-Aug-2014 19:47
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sbiddle: Haven't you heard of wireless GPON? smile

I hear that it gets congested in the city with too many people using it at once laughing

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  Reply # 1100837 2-Aug-2014 19:49
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Behodar:
sbiddle: Haven't you heard of wireless GPON? smile

I hear that it gets congested in the city with too many people using it at once laughing


Also; Microwave Ovens, Baby Monitors and cordless phones can cause some GPON interference ;)




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  Reply # 1100839 2-Aug-2014 19:52
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charsleysa: Is the cost higher? I thought it was lower since Ethernet gear is a fraction of the cost of ATM gear.

Here's on of the sources I used to educate myself on some of the differences
http://okiafcea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/eponvsgpon.pdf

I was under the impression that it requires significantly more fibre. The equipment may be cheaper but you need more of it (I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong). I also believe that Chorus already has ATM infrastructure.

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  Reply # 1100841 2-Aug-2014 20:04
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Behodar:
charsleysa: Is the cost higher? I thought it was lower since Ethernet gear is a fraction of the cost of ATM gear.

Here's on of the sources I used to educate myself on some of the differences
http://okiafcea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/eponvsgpon.pdf

I was under the impression that it requires significantly more fibre. The equipment may be cheaper but you need more of it (I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong). I also believe that Chorus already has ATM infrastructure.


I thought the GPON vs EPON network designs were physically similar and only differed in protocol, end point gear and switching / routing equipment.

Also chorus may already have ATM equipment but this is an entire new network with more LFCs than just chorus so we can't just say that a particular technology should be used because the monopoly already has that gear since it benefits the monopoly and that would be against the point of awarding other LFCs UFB contracts.




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  Reply # 1100852 2-Aug-2014 20:29
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charsleysa: Also chorus may already have ATM equipment but this is an entire new network with more LFCs than just chorus so we can't just say that a particular technology should be used because the monopoly already has that gear since it benefits the monopoly and that would be against the point of awarding other LFCs UFB contracts.

I actually forgot about the other companies; I had no intention of my comment "benefiting the monopoly".

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  Reply # 1100954 3-Aug-2014 09:15
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The UFB GPON deployments in NZ are all Ethernet based, not ATM.

ATM is only used by Chorus for legacy DSLAMs and BUBA connection, their core network and ISAMs are all Ethernet.






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  Reply # 1100968 3-Aug-2014 09:40
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sbiddle: The UFB GPON deployments in NZ are all Ethernet based, not ATM.

ATM is only used by Chorus for legacy DSLAMs and BUBA connection, their core network and ISAMs are all Ethernet.


Plus there is zero connectivity from the legacy copper network isams to the new UFB isams with GPON OLT ports.


AAnyone saying Chorus are building a substandard network has no idea what they are building.





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