Point to point link - telco assistance please

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Point to point link - telco assistance please

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LennonNZ

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#1101032 3-Aug-2014 11:04

MichaelNZ:
LennonNZ: Michael: What is the Budget/Month?
Are the 2 points within the UFF UFB Area

One end is within UFB area, the other not. For this link I would prefer a copper service for ease/speed of installation and widespread availability.

I am seeking a low cost way to link from home to the office - preferably layer 2.

A couple of VDSL connections would do the job fine bandwidth, cost and performance wise.

2* VDSL Connections you would affectively get around a 10M Connection between the 2 points (Hopefully)

Something like 2 VDSL Routers Running in Bridge Mode with a Couple of Mikrotik's Terminating the L3 At each end and then using the Mikrotik's to create a Layer 2 Tunnel Over this Layer 3 Connection.

DonGould

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#1101570 4-Aug-2014 11:27

hyperman: Are we talking across town?

if so why not use something like
Ubiquiti AirGrid M2 20dBi 600mW High Power CPE

No a good solution in an urban area as this is in the 2.4g space.

Only look at 5G space for urban areas where you have enough freq space to find a clean channel.

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DonGould

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#1101579 4-Aug-2014 11:31

MichaelNZ: To the wireless fanboi's - I am not after a wireless connection. Do you understand this?

Everyone got the point that you wanted a physical layer 1 solution.

Michael I think it's you who missed the point.

You posted a number of FUD suggestions about wireless which are simply wrong, so a few people with some good clue in the area just posted a response.

Properly engineered p2p wireless links in the GURL freq space can be extremely reliable and are used by many folk to deliver a lot of 1's to a growing number of the population at a price point that people can and will afford.

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MichaelNZ

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#1101588 4-Aug-2014 11:37

DonGould:
MichaelNZ: To the wireless fanboi's - I am not after a wireless connection. Do you understand this?

Everyone got the point that you wanted a physical layer 1 solution.

Michael I think it's you who missed the point.

I think I have been in this industry long enough to know what I want without having my very clear and specific question hijacked by people wanting to push an irrelevant opinion or service.

BTW - I never said I wanted a layer 1 solution. I'm not running the cable myself.

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trig42

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#1101591 4-Aug-2014 11:40

We still use Frame Relay for a few of the sites in our WAN. 1Mbps. Pretty rock solid.

We go through Telstra Global/VodafoneTCL.

DonGould

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#1101593 4-Aug-2014 11:42

MichaelNZ: BTW - I never said I wanted a layer 1 solution. I'm not running the cable myself.

sorry my bad...

I meant that you wanted a layer 2 service only delivered on someone else physical layer 1 medium not on a wireless carrier.

With respect to the hijacking, yes point taken, but a simple "no thanks" or ignoring the response without generating additional FUD would have kept the fanboi's at bay ;)

D

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MichaelNZ

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#1101600 4-Aug-2014 11:52

DonGould:
MichaelNZ: BTW - I never said I wanted a layer 1 solution. I'm not running the cable myself.

I meant that you wanted a layer 2 service only delivered on someone else physical layer 1 medium not on a wireless carrier.

D

I am well aware of wireless technology and it's pros and cons. I've worked at a couple of wireless ISP's in my career.

I have an office in the Wanganui CBD (Getting connected to UFB) and I want a quick and easy way to remotely access from a rural location with a minimum of an E1 of bandwidth.

A VPN is a possibility but at present I'm trying to see if I can get a couple of VDSL links 'bridged' at layer 2 so I don't have the downsides associated with VPN's. Something like this would fit the bill perfectly. Easy install, cheap equipment and widespread availability.

I have never seen a wireless ISP in the real world who can compete with the cost effectiveness, performance and reliability of VDSL. Generally, the business model is to sign up people on term contracts, full of SLA holes, who have no other alternative other than dial up or satellite.

So someone claims one exists? I'm not knocking Inspire - actually I've chosen them to provide me with UFB - but what should I base my choice on? Some claim from someone who may have a different opinion as to 'acceptable performance' or a known quantity (ie: copper)?

Last of all - Wireless ISP's are not even cheap. Why would I pay more than VDSL?

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DonGould

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#1101620 4-Aug-2014 12:12

MichaelNZ: Last of all - Wireless ISP's are not even cheap. Why would I pay more than VDSL?

Michael some good points.

There are two reasons to choose something that's not delivered on Chorus copper that I can see:

1. There is no copper - ie when you have no choice.

2. Choice - the desire for there to be a choice.

In a post Snowden era, in my view, we need to consider making sure we don't just build single owner carrier networks.

VDSL pricing is kept in check because of competitive pressure as far as I can tell.

D

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deadlyllama

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#1101656 4-Aug-2014 12:29

In these modern IP focussed days, a couple of IP connections and a VPN is all commodity, cheap, small business affordable, no salespeople to "assess your business need and wallet size." Buy them from the same provider so they can't point fingers to someone else if either link fails.

Why not go the cheap commodity way and use the savings to pay for a cellular or wireless backup?

chevrolux

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#1101658 4-Aug-2014 12:32

Getting two VDSL connections and running a VPN tunnel over the two is far different from asking for a P2P managed service.

To compare the two is just not fair, of course a couple of cr4ppy VDSL lines is going to be cheaper than a high quality point-to-point solution.

Edit: Don't know the current pricing for HSNS but I would feel pretty safe in saying they would be far more expensive than wireless. But you don't want wireless so that's fine.

sbiddle

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#1101672 4-Aug-2014 12:47

Assuming the existing UFB connection is one of the offices the most logical option would have been to have gone with the same ISP (preferably somebody who offers free local or national traffic), and used that as one of the connections along with another connection at the other office and simply run a IPoE tunnel over the two, or routed it if you didn't want to deal with ARP traffic.

jnimmo

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#1101689 4-Aug-2014 13:14

Just give a business ISP a call and ask - try DTS or HD for pricing.
HD have a pricing page for MPLS but that would be nationwide where as it should be cheaper for connections in same city.
http://www.hd.net.nz/business-solutions/business-broadband/mpls-wan-services/

Generally a pretty high install fee for setting up this stuff (min $500) but monthly should be OK.

raytaylor

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#1101906 4-Aug-2014 17:41

Telecom used to offer a service many years ago (name i forget) which allows you to rent a dry loop between two buildings in the same or nearby towns. The price was based on the number of exchange steps and businesses used to use them as remote extensions of a pbx system.

Anywhoo your ideal situation would have been to use this service, in conjunction with an ADSL or VDSL ethernet extension box on each end which would go up to 2kms.

By the time they ended the service around ~2004 the price was about $500 per month.

I think you might just need to deal with getting two internet connections - from an internet provider that allows unmetered national such as HD.net and just run a VPN over the top.

Ray Taylor

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