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895 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1128933 15-Sep-2014 11:49
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Sangamathuse: Hi guys,
We've updated the terms:
"Even if you are utilising our Static Ip service, Unlimited Internet connections are not intended for hosting publicly accessible sites or services.
If you wish to run ISP/Wireless services backhauled by our broadband, then we require you to purchase your own subnet IP range (framed-IP) and bandwidth pool.
Using an Unlimited Internet broadband connection to host publicly accessible sites or services is considered a breach of these terms, as such if you cause interruption of service on Unlimited Internet’s (or it’s upstream providers) networks, you will be held liable for the costs associated, including, but not limited to, reparation to affected customers and costs of restoration."

to:

"Even if you are utilising our Static Ip service, Unlimited Internet connections are intended for general residential use and as such are not intended to be used for large scale hosting of publicly accessible content.
In order to protect other users on the network and our upstream providers, Unlimited Internet reserves the right to limit, via traffic management systems, any connection which we deem to be using an extreme and unusually heavy amount of bandwidth, at our sole discretion.
If you wish to run ISP/Wireless services backhauled by our broadband, then we require you to purchase your own subnet IP range (framed-IP) and bandwidth pool from one of our parent wholesale companies."

Hopefully this amendment addresses some of the concerns about our (admittedly heavy handed) previous terms.

Thanks a lot,
Sam


That's awesome.  Now put a UFB handover in Whanganui before December when my Orcon contract expires :-)

24 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 1128955 15-Sep-2014 12:08
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That's awesome.  Now put a UFB handover in Whanganui before December when my Orcon contract expires :-)


Yeah hopefully it's not too far away!

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1571


  Reply # 1128960 15-Sep-2014 12:13
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kinda sucks that you are charging people from the date they sign up (according to your FAQ)

1) sign up happens typically 5-6 days before connection goes live (sometimes less, sometimes more).  You are charging them for this time. I don't believe any other ISP does that. Everyone else charges from connection date. It may in fact be illegal to do this, Sometimes chorus stuff up the provisioning and it takes a couple of weeks to sort it out before connection goes live - again, you will be billing customers for this period, making them more annoyed than they would otherwise be.
2) sometimes people like to sign up 30 days before connection, to give current ISP the 30 days notice. They can't do that with you without it being really really expensive
3) As an RSP you don't start paying chorus until you actually get connected, so you are charging customers for something which has not cost you anything (your connection fee covers the chorus provisioning charge) which many people would consider very unfair.
4) Quite often people will sign up, only to find they can't actually connect (e.g. too rural, port waiter, VDSL pre-qual was wrong). At this point, they should have the option of cancelling connection, but you will have already charged them over $100. Not great customer experience.


24 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 1128976 15-Sep-2014 12:53
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NonprayingMantis: kinda sucks that you are charging people from the date they sign up (according to your FAQ)

1) sign up happens typically 5-6 days before connection goes live (sometimes less, sometimes more).  You are charging them for this time. I don't believe any other ISP does that. Everyone else charges from connection date. It may in fact be illegal to do this, Sometimes chorus stuff up the provisioning and it takes a couple of weeks to sort it out before connection goes live - again, you will be billing customers for this period, making them more annoyed than they would otherwise be.
2) sometimes people like to sign up 30 days before connection, to give current ISP the 30 days notice. They can't do that with you without it being really really expensive
3) As an RSP you don't start paying chorus until you actually get connected, so you are charging customers for something which has not cost you anything (your connection fee covers the chorus provisioning charge) which many people would consider very unfair.
4) Quite often people will sign up, only to find they can't actually connect (e.g. too rural, port waiter, VDSL pre-qual was wrong). At this point, they should have the option of cancelling connection, but you will have already charged them over $100. Not great customer experience.



We'll obviously refund anyone who can't get service, and if someone is having to sign up way in advance as you said (in order to give their current provider notice) we would come to an arrangement with them.
Cheers,
Sam

*edit: refund not credit

348 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 25


  Reply # 1129131 15-Sep-2014 15:32
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You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.

895 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 285


  Reply # 1129142 15-Sep-2014 15:40
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tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


Paradise net used to do that for dialup customers back in the day.  I hear it reduces trouble with people not paying bills.



304 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 66


  Reply # 1129157 15-Sep-2014 15:53
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I would be interested in giving this service a try and bringing some servers back to the data centre but ive had issues with ben and hosting direct in the past (he took server of mine out then ended up selllibg the parts on tradme being one of the issues) so dont know if i can trust him - also when he said it was unlimited there was always asoftcap on stuff

24 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 1129159 15-Sep-2014 15:55
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deadlyllama:
tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


Paradise net used to do that for dialup customers back in the day.  I hear it reduces trouble with people not paying bills.


To be honest it's just set up like that because of our current billing software integration. I do see your points though and they're noted and I'm gonna bring it up at our next meeting and see what our engineers can do. 

Cheers,
Sam

2078 posts

Uber Geek
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Subscriber

  Reply # 1129161 15-Sep-2014 15:56
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tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


That would be a very real barrier to me too, especially if I was signing up as a UFB customer requiring an install before I could use the service.

On a positive note though, it is nice to see that feedback is received and in some cases changes made.

2078 posts

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+1 received by user: 230

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  Reply # 1129166 15-Sep-2014 16:01
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Sangamathuse:
deadlyllama:
tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


Paradise net used to do that for dialup customers back in the day.  I hear it reduces trouble with people not paying bills.


To be honest it's just set up like that because of our current billing software integration. I do see your points though and they're noted and I'm gonna bring it up at our next meeting and see what our engineers can do. 

Cheers,
Sam


One option might be to give the customer a credit based on the number of days charged before they were provided with service.

It is a bit of a pain to do manually but should be able to be automated quite easily.  If you go down that path I'd also suggest an exception handling process where any customers with a lead time of over one month were handled separately.

24 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 1129183 15-Sep-2014 16:12
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graemeh:
Sangamathuse:
deadlyllama:
tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


Paradise net used to do that for dialup customers back in the day.  I hear it reduces trouble with people not paying bills.


To be honest it's just set up like that because of our current billing software integration. I do see your points though and they're noted and I'm gonna bring it up at our next meeting and see what our engineers can do. 

Cheers,
Sam


One option might be to give the customer a credit based on the number of days charged before they were provided with service.

It is a bit of a pain to do manually but should be able to be automated quite easily.  If you go down that path I'd also suggest an exception handling process where any customers with a lead time of over one month were handled separately.


Yeah I think that's a good idea and probably the easiest to implement, and I imagine most customers would be happy with that arrangement. Anyway as I said I'll have a good talk next time the engineers etc. are all here and we'll try and come up with a good solution.

Thanks for the feedback (it genuinely is appreciated)!

 

Sam

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1571


  Reply # 1129197 15-Sep-2014 16:23
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Sangamathuse:
deadlyllama:
tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


Paradise net used to do that for dialup customers back in the day.  I hear it reduces trouble with people not paying bills.


To be honest it's just set up like that because of our current billing software integration. I do see your points though and they're noted and I'm gonna bring it up at our next meeting and see what our engineers can do. 

Cheers,
Sam


If you can't even bill people from the date of connection then you really need to get better billing software. (and probably fire the people who suggested you use whatever it is you are using)

Every other ISP seems to manage it - even the ones with ridiculously complex and clunky decades old billing systems like Spark or Vodafone.

As a 'nimble' small player, you should be able to easily bill on date of connection.   I'd be very worried about whoever sold you your billing system if you can't even do that.



24 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 1129240 15-Sep-2014 17:14
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NonprayingMantis:
Sangamathuse:
deadlyllama:
tkr001: You charge people before they are connected? On that basis alone you will never get me as a customer and I am sure I am not alone on that front.

You may wish to review this if it in fact what you do.


Paradise net used to do that for dialup customers back in the day.  I hear it reduces trouble with people not paying bills.


To be honest it's just set up like that because of our current billing software integration. I do see your points though and they're noted and I'm gonna bring it up at our next meeting and see what our engineers can do. 

Cheers,
Sam


If you can't even bill people from the date of connection then you really need to get better billing software. (and probably fire the people who suggested you use whatever it is you are using)

Every other ISP seems to manage it - even the ones with ridiculously complex and clunky decades old billing systems like Spark or Vodafone.

As a 'nimble' small player, you should be able to easily bill on date of connection.   I'd be very worried about whoever sold you your billing system if you can't even do that.




OK so because I wanted to sort this asap I pulled ben aside after work and basically the wording was like that because we essentially copied everything over from our HD terms, billing system etc... And obviously being a pre-pay system this is a bit different.
He's agreed we're going to pro rate people a credit to their account based on the number of days they didn't have service, which will be taken off their next month's bill, and refund directly to their account in full anyone who can't be connected.

Will change wording in FAQs etc... now

Thanks a lot,
Sam

3363 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 650

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  Reply # 1129571 16-Sep-2014 07:13
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im on snap and use about 1TB of data a month (mostly steam downloads, probably 200gb of netflix).

would this put me in the high end user category and shape my data?   snap i get great speeds, and wouldnt want to sacrifice that.

379 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 30

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  Reply # 1129631 16-Sep-2014 09:08
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My internet access is through HD (your parent company) and I've been trying to get IPv6 for the last two years from the them. Are you sure you can offer this through your company?

David.





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