Gigatown Beaten - Im So Jelly of Taranaki

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chevrolux

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#1134877 23-Sep-2014 19:35

Contention is going to be bad enough with a bunch of people with Gigabit plans running off the same port. Why clutter the upstream too? Giving customers 500Mbps Upload speeds will be terrible. Seedboxes will stop being hosted in Germany and start popping up here running off residential UFB connections.

If you need more than 20Mbps at home you are either running business services from a residential connection or you are a horrid torrenter clogging things up for your neighbours.

AidanS

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#1134880 23-Sep-2014 19:38

sbiddle:

I actually think the price is way too low for the service.

I guess the price is based off the point _most_ users won't use much more, if any more data than if they were on a 100Mbps connection and those that do take advantage of the 1Gbps connection will be a small enough group that the profit from the other users will cover their added costs.

As uptake increases and if users on this 1Gbit service do take advantage of their larger speeds then the price will likely go up.

Will be curious to see what other ISPs offer the 1Gbit service for.

sbiddle

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#1134883 23-Sep-2014 19:40

AidanS:

As uptake increases and if users on this 1Gbit service do take advantage of their larger speeds then the price will likely go up.

I'd heard a figure being floated around by a large ISP who also deals with UFF and it was significantly higher than this.

ripdog

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#1134884 23-Sep-2014 19:43

chevrolux: Contention is going to be bad enough with a bunch of people with Gigabit plans running off the same port. Why clutter the upstream too? Giving customers 500Mbps Upload speeds will be terrible. Seedboxes will stop being hosted in Germany and start popping up here running off residential UFB connections.

If you need more than 20Mbps at home you are either running business services from a residential connection or you are a horrid torrenter clogging things up for your neighbours.

Heard of online backup, file sync, skype (at actual 1080p), self-hosted cloud services, etc? And this isn't ADSL, torrenting isn't going to chew up an entire OLT. I have 100/50 and I've never managed to saturate my upload, even with big public torrents.

And the idea of seedboxes being hosted here is pure scaremongering. Japan offers (IIRC) 2Gbit symmetrical uncapped connections. When was the last time you saw someone offer a seedbox in japan? Never. Because nobody does it. The connections are low quality, high contention, have no datacentre niceties, have fair usage clauses, and ISPs would shut them down.

The hilarious thing is that even if all customers on an OLT got 1000/20 connections, the upstream would be *undersubscribed*. Seriously, there is no excuse for this.

Coil

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#1134888 23-Sep-2014 19:46

ripdog:
TimA: You can't max your line speed, Due to the TCP overhead on the upstream will be like 60Mb/s

Er, what? They are only providing 20Mb/s. And you would easily be able to max that to a local server. And if you're talking about the 500Mb/s possibility, then you'd be able to use a lot more then 60Mb/s... probably not 500 to a single server, no, but it's all about capacity. More people doing more things at once, etc...

When you stream data there has to be a check sent back to where it came from to sya it arrived. So there is roughly a 94% efficiency. If you do the math you will realise that there is about 50Mb/s upstream requirement to max the line.

Yabanize

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#1134889 23-Sep-2014 19:48

Use that 500gb in an 1 hour and 13 minutes lol!

ripdog

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#1134892 23-Sep-2014 19:51

TimA:
ripdog:
TimA: You can't max your line speed, Due to the TCP overhead on the upstream will be like 60Mb/s

Er, what? They are only providing 20Mb/s. And you would easily be able to max that to a local server. And if you're talking about the 500Mb/s possibility, then you'd be able to use a lot more then 60Mb/s... probably not 500 to a single server, no, but it's all about capacity. More people doing more things at once, etc...

When you stream data there has to be a check sent back to where it came from to sya it arrived. So there is roughly a 94% efficiency. If you do the math you will realise that there is about 50Mb/s upstream requirement to max the line.
Ripdog plz.

Oh, you were talking about the entire OLT. And yes, I know how TCP works.

The thing is, if you refuse to oversubscribe, the vast majority of the capacity of the line will go unused 99% of the time. Raising the per-customer limit to 500mbit each will allow everyone to burst to much higher speeds and make use of idle bandwidth, but (presumably) will still at least allow everyone 50mbit to use at times of peak load. As long as people realise they aren't getting guaranteed speeds, this is a much better system. Also assuming the ISP has the backhaul.

Nothing wrong with pushing the limits a bit.

raytaylor

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#1134903 23-Sep-2014 20:25

I cant remember the exact number, but remember that these gigabit plans only have a CIR of something like 10mbits.

Seeing that primo have been able to do speedtests and see 900mbits down I am thinking the 20mbit upload must not be slowing it to the same degree that we used to have with the 128 upload slowing down the FS ADSL

Ray Taylor
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MrPrimo

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#1134908 23-Sep-2014 20:34

TUANZ wrote an article from some of our tweets while we were testing. http://tuanz.org.nz/blog/2014/8/8/a-birth-notice

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wired

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#1137344 25-Sep-2014 12:14

raytaylor: I cant remember the exact number, but remember that these gigabit plans only have a CIR of something like 10mbits.

Seeing that primo have been able to do speedtests and see 900mbits down I am thinking the 20mbit upload must not be slowing it to the same degree that we used to have with the 128 upload slowing down the FS ADSL

Yeah, the 20 Mbps upstream is only the EIR rate. The low priority CIR is additional to that plus there is the layer 3 overhead allowance so when you add all these together you get a higher upstream than the 20 Mbps. The CIR isn't very large though.

eXDee

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#1137643 25-Sep-2014 16:59

I'm sure FullFlavourMedia got to the gigabit plan before these guys did.

I heard the 20 megabit upstream was also to stop it being as appealing to business customers. I agree its too low though.

Coil

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#1137679 25-Sep-2014 17:34

ripdog:
TimA:
ripdog:
TimA: You can't max your line speed, Due to the TCP overhead on the upstream will be like 60Mb/s

Er, what? They are only providing 20Mb/s. And you would easily be able to max that to a local server. And if you're talking about the 500Mb/s possibility, then you'd be able to use a lot more then 60Mb/s... probably not 500 to a single server, no, but it's all about capacity. More people doing more things at once, etc...

When you stream data there has to be a check sent back to where it came from to sya it arrived. So there is roughly a 94% efficiency. If you do the math you will realise that there is about 50Mb/s upstream requirement to max the line.
Ripdog plz.

Oh, you were talking about the entire OLT. And yes, I know how TCP works.

The thing is, if you refuse to oversubscribe, the vast majority of the capacity of the line will go unused 99% of the time. Raising the per-customer limit to 500mbit each will allow everyone to burst to much higher speeds and make use of idle bandwidth, but (presumably) will still at least allow everyone 50mbit to use at times of peak load. As long as people realise they aren't getting guaranteed speeds, this is a much better system. Also assuming the ISP has the backhaul.

Nothing wrong with pushing the limits a bit.

No,

You has no idea.

myfullflavour

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#1137712 25-Sep-2014 18:23

eXDee: I'm sure FullFlavourMedia got to the gigabit plan before these guys did.

We're full flavour now. And yes we did.

eXDee: I heard the 20 megabit upstream was also to stop it being as appealing to business customers. I agree its too low though.

Exactly. It's a best-efforts residential product, not something intended for business use.

In our case, we've got a 100/100 plan priced the same as the 1000/20, intended for home business clients.

MrPrimo

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#1137722 25-Sep-2014 18:32

Yes Id agree but also disagree with Full Flavour, we likely both 'launched/started providing/connected' customers at the same time, but its only just been taken notice of because of our new website launch, we were both tweeting our speedtests and results at the same time and we both provisioned our first clients as soon as UFF made the plans available.

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myfullflavour

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#1137735 25-Sep-2014 18:47

FiShYmAn: Yes Id agree but also disagree with Full Flavour, we likely both 'launched/stated providing/connected' customers at the same time, but its only just been taken notice of because of our new website launch, we were both tweeting our speedtests and results at the same time and we both provisioned our first clients as soon as UFF made the plans available.

Our first order was placed on the 1st of August, we tested & fixed the initial issues... the new product was up on our website shortly after that (and available to order).

Might have to agree to disagree here, but could be interested in settling for a tie.

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