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166 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 154410 27-Oct-2014 10:33
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now I may have a naive view on this or maybe I'm missing a technicality...

Would it not be possible for a community raise funds, employ contractors to lay a fibre network and then wholesale the use of the fibre out to the usual ISPs?

Now obviously there is always going to be an issue around raising the funds, but i can think of several south island areas that dont appear on any planned rollout maps yet but have plenty of wealth and big enough businesses.

There is apparently plenty of money to be made doing this kind of thing given the number of smaller names now installing fibre in unserviced areas, obviously the areas not yet covered are the less profitable areas but i would assume that it would just be a longer term return on investment.

Am I oversimplifying the situation? Would the bigger ISPs not want to use a community network?

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  Reply # 1162809 27-Oct-2014 10:37
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You're vastly under estimating the cost. Even with no ongoing costs or leases aerial Fibre is still costly per k l. Take a look at the north power Fibre coverage area. That cost 50 mill and was to a company that had a good deal of the resources needed already




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  Reply # 1162814 27-Oct-2014 10:39
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If you approached Chorus or your LFC with the millions required I'm sure they'd be willing to at least have a meeting with you.

As for "money to be made" I think you're living in a bit of a dream world there. When average install costs to install ducting and install premises are still in the $4k - $8k range per property it's a very long payback when you're only charging $40 - $50ish per month for a connection. Most infrastructure companies won't be interested in such a long wait for a ROI.








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  Reply # 1162815 27-Oct-2014 10:45
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I never said it would be cheap!
I surmised there must be profit to make from it given the number of "smaller" companies getting into laying fibre. Is this wrong?

sbiddle: If you approached Chorus or your LFC with the millions required I'm sure they'd be willing to at least have a meeting with you.


but if you approach Chorus with a bag of money you wouldn't get the money back would you? or is it within their remit to then repay that money with the money they get from connections.





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  Reply # 1162819 27-Oct-2014 10:47
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sbiddle:
As for "money to be made" I think you're living in a bit of a dream world there. When average install costs to install ducting and install premises are still in the $4k - $8k range per property it's a very long payback when you're only charging $40 - $50ish per month for a connection. Most infrastructure companies won't be interested in such a long wait for a ROI.







Ok, then i struggle to see why there is companies  and seemingly more popping up all the time providing fibre in non-chorus covered areas?

At the end of the day these companies are making money one way or another (most of them), and it must be from customers connecting to their fibre one way or another, otherwise they wouldn't lay the fibre

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  Reply # 1162825 27-Oct-2014 10:56
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Who are all these companies laying fibre that you speak of? I'm not aware of anybody other than the big players doing this - and even then companies like FX have suffered financially as a result.




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  Reply # 1162826 27-Oct-2014 10:59
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Gozer:
sbiddle:
As for "money to be made" I think you're living in a bit of a dream world there. When average install costs to install ducting and install premises are still in the $4k - $8k range per property it's a very long payback when you're only charging $40 - $50ish per month for a connection. Most infrastructure companies won't be interested in such a long wait for a ROI.







Ok, then i struggle to see why there is companies  and seemingly more popping up all the time providing fibre in non-chorus covered areas?

At the end of the day these companies are making money one way or another (most of them), and it must be from customers connecting to their fibre one way or another, otherwise they wouldn't lay the fibre


Yes please name them?

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  Reply # 1162858 27-Oct-2014 11:10
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Sure you're not confused with wireless RBI?

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  Reply # 1162929 27-Oct-2014 13:06
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Lol who's paying the rbi Colo fees? I'm not aware of anyone else. Wonder if he's mixing up NP and enable




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  Reply # 1162936 27-Oct-2014 13:20
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Wanaka paid Chorus to put fibre in their town.

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  Reply # 1163240 27-Oct-2014 23:52
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Beccara: Lol who's paying the rbi Colo fees? I'm not aware of anyone else. Wonder if he's mixing up NP and enable


I had a meeting with MBIE a few weeks ago and they claimed that yes a smaller player was indeed paying rbi colo fees.
For us, the cost of getting set up on an RBI tower is just too prohibitive -and- the rbi towers are usually positioned in the wrong places.

I have been looking into the cost of stringing up fibre.
A quote from a local lines company is approx $600 for their engineers assessment for each power pole we wish to attach fibre to.
ADSS fibre cables need to be used (no steel messenger / load baring wire to eliminate induction) which starts at about USD$5 per metre when purchased in bulk.

It almost seems directional drilling might be cheaper - which I think is down to about $3 per metre but then the cost of the armoured cable is at about $2-$5 per metre.

A quote for tube with preinstalled microduct is about $5 to $10 per metre.






Ray Taylor
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  Reply # 1166822 2-Nov-2014 11:29
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I seem to recall that a bunch of small towns like Eketahuna and schools including Mangamaire School got together and installed a fibre optic system in the Wairarapa a number of years ago.




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  Reply # 1166827 2-Nov-2014 11:37
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My feeling is in the last 5 years, utilities have transitioned their mindset from community organisations into corporate machines.

No longer will you be able to talk to a manager and ask for permission to do something like string a cable up on their poles for a short distance - its now "we need to pass this by the board, or we need you to get these unreasonable qualifications, or we just dont want you to because it competes against our own service"

Councils seem to be the same.

You gotta be big, or they wont want to listen to you.

And much of it is because of UFB - they want to standardise everything and deal with as few people as possible.
Industry guidelines have told them too they can go and make it more difficult.




Ray Taylor
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www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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  Reply # 1166861 2-Nov-2014 13:06
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Mangamaire farmers get fast broadband

 

 

 

Updated at 1:57 pm on 17 December 2008

 

 

 

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Residents of a small North Island rural community have started hooking up to a super-speed broadband service as the result of a joint initiative between a local body and technology providers.

 

In what is believed to be a first for the country, farmers in the Mangamaire district north of Eketahuna are laying their own cables to link into a new fibre optic network being installed in the Tararua district.

 

The internet service provided to Mangamaire and its 46-pupil school has a 100 megabit capacity, compared to about 15 or 20 megabits available through copper lines in downtown Auckland.

 

The fibre optic system runs through Mangamaire on its way from Norsewood to Eketahuna.

 

James Watts, of the internet and fibre service providers InspireNet and Digital Nation, said the core fibre runs down the side of the main road, so the company simply worked with residents to extend the fibre network across the paddocks to houses and the school.

 

So far the Mangamaire school and two farms have been hooked up.

 

Mr Watts is expecting to link another five to 10 households in the next month or so and will also be providing a wireless link for those who don't want to join the cable network.

 

Tararua District Council corporate services manager Peter Winsett is expecting other rural communiities will be queuing to join up as well, once the system is shown to work.

 





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  Reply # 1166862 2-Nov-2014 13:09
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DarthKermit: Mangamaire farmers get fast broadband Updated at 1:57 pm on 17 December 2008 Tweet on Twitter Share on Facebook   Residents of a small North Island rural community have started hooking up to a super-speed broadband service as the result of a joint initiative between a local body and technology providers. In what is believed to be a first for the country, farmers in the Mangamaire district north of Eketahuna are laying their own cables to link into a new fibre optic network being installed in the Tararua district. The internet service provided to Mangamaire and its 46-pupil school has a 100 megabit capacity, compared to about 15 or 20 megabits available through copper lines in downtown Auckland. The fibre optic system runs through Mangamaire on its way from Norsewood to Eketahuna. James Watts, of the internet and fibre service providers InspireNet and Digital Nation, said the core fibre runs down the side of the main road, so the company simply worked with residents to extend the fibre network across the paddocks to houses and the school. So far the Mangamaire school and two farms have been hooked up. Mr Watts is expecting to link another five to 10 households in the next month or so and will also be providing a wireless link for those who don't want to join the cable network. Tararua District Council corporate services manager Peter Winsett is expecting other rural communiities will be queuing to join up as well, once the system is shown to work.


i was driving up past there over this weekend, if i had known this i would have probably stopped off for a little detour to check the place out.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1167294 3-Nov-2014 09:00
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raytaylor: My feeling is in the last 5 years, utilities have transitioned their mindset from community organisations into corporate machines.

No longer will you be able to talk to a manager and ask for permission to do something like string a cable up on their poles for a short distance - its now "we need to pass this by the board, or we need you to get these unreasonable qualifications, or we just dont want you to because it competes against our own service"

Councils seem to be the same.

You gotta be big, or they wont want to listen to you.

And much of it is because of UFB - they want to standardise everything and deal with as few people as possible.
Industry guidelines have told them too they can go and make it more difficult.


I'm sorry but what are these unreasonable qualifications? I don't think i ever recall being able to walk into a lines company (or Chorus since they own alot of poles too) and just ask to slap some cables up.

Even in areas with overhead your still dealing with active power at either 240/400/11000 and that's not to be messed with, This is also ignoring what happens when resources are too easily accessed:





Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

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