Orcon's First Unbundled Local Loop Line

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Zimsar10

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#84522 30-Aug-2007 20:52

Fraktul: Sorry but why and to where? Orcon have no direct control over aspects of the Internet and your performance to various portions of it in general past their National and International transit suppliers. You are moving past testing Orcon's LLU implementation and on to something else entirely.

Also this is all well and good Matt, hopefully these results continue when you start rolling out customers past your commercial trails and actually have contention on the network.

Personally, I would use a site like www.apple.com to download iTunes as a test file for International speed, then download a file from http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/ondemand_index/ondemand_skin for a national test, purely to give an indication of what the speed is like, can't see any harm in that. Anyone can post Speedtests, but these mean little unless you can back it up with actual real world performance.

Zimsar10

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#84523 30-Aug-2007 20:57

sbiddle: I guess TCL can no longer claim NZ's fastest home broadband service! Time to pull down those bus stop ad's and redo the GFX on the TCL bus in Wellington! :-)

Orcon's current performance is a trial with very few end users. TCL have an established residential service with contention ratios accounted for, which will also offer 25Mbit by Xmas apparently, so currently TCL are still the fastest home/residential service.

freitasm

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#84537 30-Aug-2007 21:49

ZIMsar10: Personally, I would use a site like www.apple.com to download iTunes as a test file for International speed, then download a file from http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/ondemand_index/ondemand_skin for a national test, purely to give an indication of what the speed is like, can't see any harm in that. Anyone can post Speedtests, but these mean little unless you can back it up with actual real world performance.

Nope... TV NZ On Demand files are hosted in Australia.

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nzbnw

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#84543 30-Aug-2007 22:03

ZIMsar10: The wonderful speeds are a result of LLU & Orcon installing their own equipment into the Ponsonby Exchange in this case, using ADSL2+ technology.

I thought Orcon where planning to use VDSL2+, or have they now opted for a mix with ADSL2+ included?

nzbnw

tknz

171 posts

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#84553 30-Aug-2007 22:17

I wonder what the Upload performance will be, shame it isn't static I.P even though they can be requested, if it was to outperform Telstraclear Cable I would change to the Naked DSL plans when they finally come out. although I some how think with Fibre down every street in the Telstra Network and Cable modems that could easily go at 40mb/s I doubt the competition would be allowed to pursue much further. It was noticable that every time Telecom released something new Telstra would double bandwidth.....free.

willnz

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#84578 30-Aug-2007 23:53

nzbnw: I thought Orcon where planning to use VDSL2+, or have they now opted for a mix with ADSL2+ included?

I second that - these VDSL2 plans of theirs seem to have disappeared into the darkness, perhaps someone finally noticed the cost of the CPE devices

tknz

171 posts

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#84580 31-Aug-2007 00:02

freitasm:
ZIMsar10: Personally, I would use a site like www.apple.com to download iTunes as a test file for International speed, then download a file from http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/ondemand_index/ondemand_skin for a national test, purely to give an indication of what the speed is like, can't see any harm in that. Anyone can post Speedtests, but these mean little unless you can back it up with actual real world performance.

Nope... TV NZ On Demand files are hosted in Australia.

What?? the speedtest isn't though, the latency is far to low for that to be possible. Goes over Telstra Fibre to Auckland.

Fraktul

836 posts

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#84586 31-Aug-2007 01:11

They can still put in VDSL2+ line cards where required I would say. ADSL2+ is enough for res customers currently and probably the next 2-3 years, line cards are cheaper and so if the CPE. So there is not much point installing VDSL2+ for anything other than premium service requirements.

willnz

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#84588 31-Aug-2007 01:33

From Computerworld (November 2006):

ISP Orcon wants to go one better than Telecom by moving straight to VDSL2, the second-generation very high data-rate Digital Subscriber Line service, straight-away instead of going with ADSL2+, which Telecom is planning to offer next year.

....

Bartlett says “it would take four to five weeks for us to go into the exchanges and have the service ready.”

antoniosk

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#84590 31-Aug-2007 02:47

nzbnw:
ZIMsar10: The wonderful speeds are a result of LLU & Orcon installing their own equipment into the Ponsonby Exchange in this case, using ADSL2+ technology.

I thought Orcon where planning to use VDSL2+, or have they now opted for a mix with ADSL2+ included?

nzbnw

You're allowed to install VDSL2 kit, but can't electrify the line with VDSL2, only ADSL2+. There is no agreed interference standard for using VDSL2 yet - Australia is still working on it - so companies will have to wait until the specs are published, agreed, discussed and so on.

There is also general state of copper to be investigated as VDSL2 is more susceptible to problems, and a large sheath of copper pairs all singing at the same volume means someone will be drowned out eventually.

And of course VDSL2 performance generally dies after 1.2km....

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antoniosk

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#84591 31-Aug-2007 02:48

willnz:
nzbnw: I thought Orcon where planning to use VDSL2+, or have they now opted for a mix with ADSL2+ included?

I second that - these VDSL2 plans of theirs seem to have disappeared into the darkness, perhaps someone finally noticed the cost of the CPE devices

Widespread availability even.....

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Antoniosk

Zimsar10

210 posts

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#84610 31-Aug-2007 08:51

freitasm:
ZIMsar10: Personally, I would use a site like www.apple.com to download iTunes as a test file for International speed, then download a file from http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/ondemand_index/ondemand_skin for a national test, purely to give an indication of what the speed is like, can't see any harm in that. Anyone can post Speedtests, but these mean little unless you can back it up with actual real world performance.

Nope... TV NZ On Demand files are hosted in Australia.

Damn, never knew that, thanks for the update. However, I'm sure there is something that can be downloaded "in New Zealand" & also overseas of course to give an indication of the actual real world performance, I for one would be most interested to see what their setup actually delivers.

peza

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#85601 6-Sep-2007 12:57

Congratulations Orcon...

Based on the various discussions as part of this thread I felt compelled to respond.

1. The correct term is VDSL2, not VDSL2+, is definded within ITU G.993.2.
2. The ITU standards is very broad, and has not been defined to be used within Australia and New Zealand.
This is being worked on within the CommAlliance forum in Australia, TNZ is present at this Working Group to understand what will be done in Australia.
3. It is also a myth that VDSL2 dies or is only useful up to 1.2km~1.5km, I think you were thinking of VDSL1.
The DSL forum has some great tutorials on DSL, and specifically VDSL2
http://www.dslforum.org/learndsl/ppt/VDSL2_Tutorial-2005.ppt
4. Maybe Orcon (Matthew Sliedrecht) should comment on the VSL2 upgrade, but based on this press release it looks like the equipment is supplied by Nokia Siemens Networks.
http://www.telegeography.com/cu/article.php?article_id=16750&email=html
I couldn't find much on the product...expect for.
http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/global/SSP/BA/Systems+product+areas/DSLAM.htm
The platform comprises single board/single service IP DSLAMs for ADLS2+ and VDSL2 as well as a series of Multi Service Access Nodes (MSAN) supporting all blends of DSL including H.248/SIP controlled VoIP gateways...etc,etc.
Sounds like the same product that is being used to deliver the Triple Play in Germany...if you can read the German...
http://www.t-home.de/tarifuebersicht - good pricing table.

Orcon keep up the good work !

sudo

308 posts

Ultimate Geek

#85668 6-Sep-2007 20:26

Thats a good presentation link to VDSL Peza!

In the end, I don't think the technology will constrict the user experience.

It will likely be something like over-subscription, low CIR, inadequate back-haul or international bandwidth as
we have seen up until now.

I can accept we are a small country and don't have the reach of scale, but it feels like we are currently going backwards
as we are getting milked by sharing overcrowded infrastructure.

ADSL2+/VDSL gives me cold comfort like seeing the Aussie ADSL2+ deployments with caps as low(er) as ours.

inquisitor

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#85738 7-Sep-2007 12:38

Deutsche Telekom is facing severe problems with VDSL2 over here. Allthough they've only connected users within 1000 m of the exchanges 90% of the users don't get more than 20 MBit/s, due to unexpected high interferences especially in the higher frequencies. Already at a DSL penetration rate of 20-40% interferences become so strong, that there's no advantage in bandwidth compared to ADSL2+.
Beyond that there's very little use for those high bandwidths, as it will take years until backbones have been upgraded to the bandwidths VDSL users may require. Practically the only service, that could take advantage on higher speeds today is IPTV, if broadcasted within the provider's network. But since 2-4 MBit/s are enough for perfect SDTV streams and there's neither enough HD content nor enough HD-ready viewers, I wonder what people expect from VDSL2+.

So guys, forget that VDSL stuff!

Btw. regarding the tariff overview of Deutsche Telekom linked above, let me mention that Tele2 Germany offers nacked ADSL2+ (inlcuding data flatrate + 2 VoIP lines + voice flatrate) for € 32.

router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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