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Topic # 159795 12-Dec-2014 20:31
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Very interested in confirming if others have found what seems to be a little quirk in the current install policy of UFB connections.

Have a client who is moving into a new serviced office that allows them to install their own comms equipment.

There are currently 5 other active UFB connections and another 4 UFB connections that are "not working" due to the companies concerned no longer being in the building in the shared comms room.

So that currently 9 ONT's on the wall, all flashing away using power etc with physically only 5 operational/connected to routers etc.

When our client inquired about using one of the "unused" connections Chorus/Visionstream said its policy to install new fiber for all new connections. Which in turn means about a months wait due to the normal stuff, resource consent/traffic management plans/blowing fibre strand into building etc

Anyone else fallen over this ?

At what point will they look at or who do you need to offer cake to to allow the reuse of existing in place ONT's ?

As a 2nd issue, can the other ports on the ONT be used at all (with a different ISP or account with the same ISP)?

Cheers

Lee



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  Reply # 1196571 12-Dec-2014 20:38
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Using the other ONT ports isn't a service that LFCs offer especially on other RSPs.

But there shouldn't be a reason why they wouldn't reuse any ONTs that had been disconnected as lond as it has been fully disconnected.

Depends on the LFC and the situation.



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  Reply # 1196583 12-Dec-2014 20:52
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plambrechtsen: Using the other ONT ports isn't a service that LFCs offer especially on other RSPs.


Some LFC's (none UFB) do allow for using the ports on their ONT's, in particular I have used the counties power network via Compass networks. Just didnt know if its something that being offered via UFB.


But there shouldn't be a reason why they wouldn't reuse any ONTs that had been disconnected as long as it has been fully disconnected.
Depends on the LFC and the situation.


I was under the impression the 4 "unused" ONT's are not connected however Visionstream would not entertain the idea of reusing them, didnt event want the serial numbers to check etc.

As much as I love acronyms, ill add this here to help those who may not be use to the ones we have used above.

LFC = Local Fibre Company (people who "own" the fibre")
RSP = Retail Service Provider (your internet provider)
UFB = Ultra-Fast Broadband (NZ internet service product)
MDU = multi-dwelling unit (equipment to provide different connections sometimes via different RSP via one physical fibre strands)

Cheers

Lee



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  Reply # 1196591 12-Dec-2014 20:59
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I honestly think this is insane. I've had a couple of customers on Enable and UFF who required service from another ISP and they've livened up another port on the ONT - far easier to do (in theory).

What I don't understand is why Chorus of all people can't do this? The last thing you want is a room full of ONT's and it is a total waste of money from a financial standpoint. I would have thought after all these years somebody at Chorus would have figured out how to utilise the other Ethernet ports on the ONT just like how other LFC's have done.

Honestly, come on Chorus. Stop spending $1000's on stupid things like this and start putting the R&D into utilising the other ports and telling installers to use labelmakers or something to label individual ports - it shouldn't be a hard thing to do.

Speaking of which since we're selling our house with a pre-existing UFB connection that is so nicely installed I sure hope the new owners won't have to install another ONT instead of reusing the one already there...




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  Reply # 1196593 12-Dec-2014 21:03
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plambrechtsen: Using the other ONT ports isn't a service that LFCs offer especially on other RSPs.


Thats incorrect, A single customer  can have multiple services from multiple RSP's on everyone but Chorus (which is a limitation of their kit AFAIK)

In fact the non-primary RSP's dont have a term or alot of the paperwork involved, This is actually built into the UFB spec. The grey area is a single ONT to provide multiple services to different end users but the LFC's outside Chorus again are keen to get multiple end users on with as little install mess as possible, I dont have any direct experience in this going ahead but it has been talked about alot to minimize the amount of build in MDU's with central com's areas

e: I have actually seen this once with a non-Chorus LFC and a medical center

There's alot of friction within the product forum about Chorus's UFB kit behind so far behind the other LFC's in feature set and flexablity




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

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  Reply # 1196619 12-Dec-2014 21:39
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sampler: 

Some LFC's (none UFB) do allow for using the ports on their ONT's, in particular I have used the counties power network via Compass networks. Just didnt know if its something that being offered via UFB.



Some of the LFCs make it available, but the RSPs don't want it.  It's too bespoke for the large players to care about.  And the smaller RSPs don't want it for other reasons (I'm presuming because it's available, but not in use, I'd give more specific reasons, but I'm sure someone would object, even if I were right).



I was under the impression the 4 "unused" ONT's are no connected however Visionstream would not entertain the idea of reusing them, didnt event want the serial numbers to check etc.

As much as I love acronyms, ill add this here to help those who may not be use to the ones we have used above.

LFC = Local Fibre Company
RSP = Retail Service Provider
UFB = Ultra-Fast Broadband



That's a RSP issue, not an LFC issue.  Shop RSPs.  I can recommend one.

Oh, and I don't like your definition of LFC.  LFC stands for what you say, but Counties Power is not an LFC (nor is Citylink, Vector, FX, or any of a number of companies that will sell you fibre or services over fibre).  A UFB LFC is defined as North Power, UFF, Enable, and Chorus, in their respective UFB areas.  There are no other UFB LFCs, and as most people mean "UFB LFC" when they say "LFC", I'd take LFC to mean only one of those companies, and nobody else.  The others I generally hear referred to as "Other Fibre Providers."  But OFP isn't an official acronym.

But, as you indicate other providers in the mix, if an ONT is not an UFB LFC ONT, then it couldn't be used by the LFC to provide UFB.  Also, some boxes that look ONT-like, aren't.  Chorus BFAS service, in a UFB zone, is likely a fibre connection into a powered media converter, but can't be used for UFB services.

I'll connect up the other ONTs, if they are UFB LFC ONTs, and will see about using other ports on the ones that are in use, if the unused ones can't be used.  Drop me a PM if you want to deal with an RSP that will go the extra mile to give you the service you desire.

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  Reply # 1196620 12-Dec-2014 21:40
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 Thats incorrect, A single customer  can have multiple services from multiple RSP's on everyone but Chorus (which is a limitation of their kit AFAIK)


Its not a limitation of the ALu kit that Chorus use - it more likely to be a provisioning/process limitation. 

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  Reply # 1196629 12-Dec-2014 22:04
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sampler: Very interested in confirming if others have found what seems to be a little quirk in the current install policy of UFB connections.

Have a client who is moving into a new serviced office that allows them to install their own comms equipment.

There are currently 5 other active UFB connections and another 4 UFB connections that are "not working" due to the companies concerned no longer being in the building in the shared comms room.

So that currently 9 ONT's on the wall, all flashing away using power etc with physically only 5 operational/connected to routers etc.


Unless they have been relinquised by the RSPs then as far as Chorus are concerned they are still live (even if they are not physicaly serviceing anyone) re term contracts etc


When our client inquired about using one of the "unused" connections Chorus/Visionstream said its policy to install new fiber for all new connections. Which in turn means about a months wait due to the normal stuff, resource consent/traffic management plans/blowing fibre strand into building etc


AFAIK - there is no such policy - no they dont need to add another connection for another tenant in the same building etc, unless as above / Fibre connections, both residential and commercial, are reused every day / If there are that many existing UFB connections then there will be no months delay due to any of that stuff as it should be already done / I would suspect there will likely be a local FAT (Fibre Access Terminal) already built into the building which a conection can be taken from (provideing it isnt again already filled up with existing connection)


At what point will they look at or who do you need to offer cake to to allow the reuse of existing in place ONT's ?


When they are released for reuse (or the service company asks chorus to check with the RSPs for a release)



As a 2nd issue, can the other ports on the ONT be used at all (with a different ISP or account with the same ISP)?


yes as has already been commecnted on the 2,3& 4th ports on the Chorus ONTS can be used for other services but at this stage they dont have a provisioning solution to do so but the main point here is the the 1st port must first be a service to the same end user/company


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  Reply # 1196680 13-Dec-2014 03:51
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Whinery:

A UFB LFC is defined as North Power, UFF, Enable, and Chorus, in their respective UFB areas. 


Chorus isn't a LFC.

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  Reply # 1196714 13-Dec-2014 09:59
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DarkShadow:
Whinery:

A UFB LFC is defined as North Power, UFF, Enable, and Chorus, in their respective UFB areas. 


Chorus isn't a LFC.


Really?? I must have missed the part at the bottom of that page that lists Chorus as a LFC. ;)

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  Reply # 1196720 13-Dec-2014 10:14
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plambrechtsen:
DarkShadow:
Whinery:

A UFB LFC is defined as North Power, UFF, Enable, and Chorus, in their respective UFB areas. 


Chorus isn't a LFC.


Really?? I must have missed the part at the bottom of that page that lists Chorus as a LFC. ;)


We aren't an LFC as far as contracts go. But it's easiest to term us as an LFC for UFB services in UFB areas.
From that same page:
"Three Local Fibre Companies or LFCs have been created as a result and the fourth partnership has resulted in a newly formed company called Chorus Limited"

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  Reply # 1196721 13-Dec-2014 10:22
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As for the issues at the core of this thread....

Chorus don't have a policy of not re-using existing ONTs that aren't being used any longer.
However there are complications if:
1) the ONT/service has been abandoned.. The RSP should be able to follow a normal process for this.
2) ONTs are per premise, so we won't use an ONT that is actually for another premise, a second ONT will be put in. As InstallerUFB mentioned, this shouldn't be hard or take long.

For using other ports on existing ONTs.... We will soon have 'secondary service' capability for the other ports on ONTs. It's an ordering/provisioning system enhancement, the network itself has always supported this functionality.
The tricky part is that CFH have stipulated different pricing for secondary services, driving some complexity around this into LFCs/chorus and RSPs.

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