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  # 1319710 8-Jun-2015 21:05
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richms: Well considering how much of what the broadcast industry transmit that is overcompressed crap or else riddled with analog artifacts I dont think they really care about quality a great deal.


ya I don't really know what Steve's on about.  I don't know how much ISDN is really used for anything other than old PABXs.

How much 'live' audio is really bounced about?

Are we really going to keep a whole platform in place just for the tiny about of this expensive audio?

More and more I see news programs just using skype, which doesn't touch ISDN at all.

As most here know, I don't really know enough about the issues, but so far I'm very unconvinced based on what I'm reading here.

But we're getting off topic.  My point is simply that we need to abandon these old technologies on the copper and move to fibre technologies that are cheaper to delivery and maintain.






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  # 1319724 8-Jun-2015 21:28
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myfullflavour: Most broadcasters have moved to IP. Tieline products appear to be the most popular, at least in NZ.


Tieline is huge - all the radio stations use them.. But they all use them over ISDN.

The number of temporary ISDN lines that go into every stadium in NZ for sporting events is quite unreal.



 
 
 
 




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  # 1319728 8-Jun-2015 21:43
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guys does the CGNAT impede any web browsing experience? i dont even know what its purpose is as i was busy in Aus at the time.

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  # 1319733 8-Jun-2015 21:51
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TeaLeaf: guys does the CGNAT impede any web browsing experience? i dont even know what its purpose is as i was busy in Aus at the time.

It shouldn't. It's used because IPv4 addresses are running out. You can opt out by paying a $45 fee for static IP.



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  # 1319932 9-Jun-2015 08:45
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so you cant have a dynamic IP and opt out of CGNAT?

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  # 1320063 9-Jun-2015 10:33
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sbiddle:
myfullflavour: Most broadcasters have moved to IP. Tieline products appear to be the most popular, at least in NZ.


Tieline is huge - all the radio stations use them.. But they all use them over ISDN.

The number of temporary ISDN lines that go into every stadium in NZ for sporting events is quite unreal.




Can't we do ISDN over fibre?

What's so special about ISDN that it can't be built on IP?






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  # 1320180 9-Jun-2015 11:33
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DonGould: 

Can't we do ISDN over fibre?

What's so special about ISDN that it can't be built on IP?




ISDN sits on top of the circuit switched phone network .. so when a connection is established between two ISDN devices they (theoretically) have a continuous piece of copper between them through which they can send data.  Latency is low and bandwidth is known.

IP is like using a bunch of runners to deliver the packets of data you write the address on the front and send them out, they may or may not go the route you want them to go, they may or may not take the highways you want them on and they may or may not arrive in the order you send them.

ISDN is long in the tooth now but it does still work very well for what it is designed to do.

 
 
 
 




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  # 1320186 9-Jun-2015 11:41
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Is it possible to have a public dynamic IP and not have CGNAT?

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  # 1320188 9-Jun-2015 11:44
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Mark:
ISDN sits on top of the circuit switched phone network .. so when a connection is established between two ISDN devices they (theoretically) have a continuous piece of copper between them through which they can send data.  Latency is low and bandwidth is known.

IP is like using a bunch of runners to deliver the packets of data you write the address on the front and send them out, they may or may not go the route you want them to go, they may or may not take the highways you want them on and they may or may not arrive in the order you send them.

ISDN is long in the tooth now but it does still work very well for what it is designed to do.


Ok, none of that is a reason to keep ISDN.  It's a reason to fix IP so it performs well enough to deliver the QoS that the consumers need.

It seems to me that energy is being put in to maintaining old networks simply because we can't get the new ones right, yet.

Ipv4/ipv6 debate in there too, really isn't it.

Mark thanks for the feed back though. :)  I do see Steve's point, it's not lost on me at all, hence the interest in discussion.




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  # 1320192 9-Jun-2015 11:49
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Also isdn has a known clock for the whole network. IP needs you to buffer to allow for the 2 ends being clocked differently. That adds latency when the network has stuff all of it.




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  # 1320195 9-Jun-2015 11:53
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DonGould:
Mark:
ISDN sits on top of the circuit switched phone network .. so when a connection is established between two ISDN devices they (theoretically) have a continuous piece of copper between them through which they can send data.  Latency is low and bandwidth is known.

IP is like using a bunch of runners to deliver the packets of data you write the address on the front and send them out, they may or may not go the route you want them to go, they may or may not take the highways you want them on and they may or may not arrive in the order you send them.

ISDN is long in the tooth now but it does still work very well for what it is designed to do.


Ok, none of that is a reason to keep ISDN.  It's a reason to fix IP so it performs well enough to deliver the QoS that the consumers need.

It seems to me that energy is being put in to maintaining old networks simply because we can't get the new ones right, yet.

Ipv4/ipv6 debate in there too, really isn't it.

Mark thanks for the feed back though. :)  I do see Steve's point, it's not lost on me at all, hence the interest in discussion.


For ultra time sensitive applications it can be.

Telcos will continue maintaining and offering a service as long as it is profitable to do so. Welcome to Capitalism.

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  # 1320204 9-Jun-2015 11:58
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Sorry I can no longer participate in this thread.

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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  # 1320212 9-Jun-2015 12:21
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TeaLeaf: Is it possible to have a public dynamic IP and not have CGNAT?


You've mentioned a few ISPs in this thread now, so it depends on which provider you're referring to in order to answer this question




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  # 1320293 9-Jun-2015 13:36
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wasabi2k:  For ultra time sensitive applications it can be.

Telcos will continue maintaining and offering a service as long as it is profitable to do so. Welcome to Capitalism.


Yes that makes good sense too.

My question is what impact does supporting these older technologies have on delivery of new tech that people want?

I do take the point that my comment about just pulling ISDN was rash, but that was the point of discussion.

I also get the point that this whole fibre transition just takes time, but we also have to remember that people have to keep operating in their businesses while transition happens.

When I see posts like the OP's pop up, I wonder if we're getting that balance right?

Or is this just a case of managing consumer frustration and keeping people a little more grounded about what they should expect?








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  # 1320294 9-Jun-2015 13:38
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DonGould:
My question is what impact does supporting these older technologies have on delivery of new tech that people want?



By definition, if it's profitable, none, really. It's not like anybody's short on rack space in data centres these day.




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