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40 posts

Geek
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  # 1324808 15-Jun-2015 10:38
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Cool thanks guys!!!!!

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Uber Geek
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  # 1324843 15-Jun-2015 11:14
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This doesn't need to cost much.

You can bond VDSL with the right provider.

You'll want public IP space, which you can also get with the right provider.

VDSL with unlimited data shouldn't cost you any more than $200 a month.

IP addresses can cost as little as $5 a month per address.

Do you know how to set up a Mikrotik router?

If you pick up VDSL next to the cabinet then you can get the full 50 mbit down and what ever the current upload rate is (think it just jumped to 20 mbit).





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Uber Geek
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  # 1324844 15-Jun-2015 11:15
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Oh, as for GCSB and other compliance issues, yes, just pass that back up the chain to your upstream.




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  # 1324903 15-Jun-2015 12:17
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DonGould: This doesn't need to cost much.

You can bond VDSL with the right provider.

You'll want public IP space, which you can also get with the right provider.

VDSL with unlimited data shouldn't cost you any more than $200 a month.

IP addresses can cost as little as $5 a month per address.

Do you know how to set up a Mikrotik router?

If you pick up VDSL next to the cabinet then you can get the full 50 mbit down and what ever the current upload rate is (think it just jumped to 20 mbit).



To be honest I think this is going to be the cheapest option for connectivity and I like the idea on the government line-tapping requirement for "ISPs" (just ensure separate IPv4/IPv6 for everyone).

It's not super high reliability but just create that expectation with customers. Maybe you can contact a local WISP provider int he area who can help set this up and runt he technical side for you?





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  # 1324904 15-Jun-2015 12:17
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DonGould: This doesn't need to cost much.

You can bond VDSL with the right provider.

You'll want public IP space, which you can also get with the right provider.

VDSL with unlimited data shouldn't cost you any more than $200 a month.

IP addresses can cost as little as $5 a month per address.

Do you know how to set up a Mikrotik router?

If you pick up VDSL next to the cabinet then you can get the full 50 mbit down and what ever the current upload rate is (think it just jumped to 20 mbit).



To be honest I think this is going to be the cheapest option for connectivity and I like the idea on the government line-tapping requirement for "ISPs" (just ensure separate IPv4/IPv6 for everyone).

It's not super high reliability but just create that expectation with customers. Maybe you can contact a local WISP provider int he area who can help set this up and runt he technical side for you?





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  # 1324906 15-Jun-2015 12:22
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DonGould: Oh, as for GCSB and other compliance issues, yes, just pass that back up the chain to your upstream.


You can't just pass the buck on legal requirements just because you don't want to comply with then.

TICSA either applies to you or it doesn't. It's up to the OP to decide (potentially seeking legal advice if they're uncertain of the law) whether the law exempts them or not due to the services they're offering.

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  # 1325012 15-Jun-2015 14:33
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sbiddle:
DonGould: Oh, as for GCSB and other compliance issues, yes, just pass that back up the chain to your upstream.


You can't just pass the buck on legal requirements just because you don't want to comply with then.

TICSA either applies to you or it doesn't. It's up to the OP to decide (potentially seeking legal advice if they're uncertain of the law) whether the law exempts them or not due to the services they're offering.


Best advise to seek first is calling the people who administer the TICSA and just see what requirements they might have of you.

You don't call a lawyer about a building consent when you're putting up a farm shed, you call your local council who have someone who will guide you through the process, this really is no different.





Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


 
 
 
 


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  # 1325013 15-Jun-2015 14:34
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Zeon: It's not super high reliability but just create that expectation with customers. Maybe you can contact a local WISP provider int he area who can help set this up and runt he technical side for you?


I agree, that's good advise.

I'd also be calling GoWifi and having a chat.  Dale Roberts is clearly leading the charge on getting these small projects online.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz




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Geek
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  # 1325041 15-Jun-2015 14:55
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I'm not concerned about the compliance aspect - I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

 

 

I was planning on using ubiquity mostly due to the fact that I already have 2 high-end ubiquity APs.

 

And I would install the gateway as close to the cabinet as possible.

 

 

 

The town is small and its enclosed by massive mountains so I think I could most likely get overlapping coverage across most of the town simply by placing 1 on each side facing slightly away from the lake (because masses of water mess up wireless networks big time)

 

 

 

I would not be offering VOIP and if it was needed I would buy an IP range but I'm not thinking past NAT at this stage.

252 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1325046 15-Jun-2015 15:01
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Unless you like spending a lot of time making no money or loosing money don't try.

First, most ISP agreements don't allow you to re-sell domestic services (such as ADSL, VDSL, etc).  So you will need to buy a commercial service.  These easily cost 10 to 100 times more.

Next, the technical aspects of running a WISP are only a small part of the picture of running an ISP.  Have you considered how you are going to handle billing, debt collection, taxation compliance, handle complains, handle court orders for discovery of your clients, etc.  What about when you get your first user who bleeds the service dry by sucking up all the bandwidth and results in everyone else complaining?


Maybe 20 years ago there was a place for small niche ISPs, but that time has long since past.  Unless you have at least 10,000 customers you are going to loose money.




Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!



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  # 1325064 15-Jun-2015 15:12
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pdath: Unless you like spending a lot of time making no money or loosing money don't try.

First, most ISP agreements don't allow you to re-sell domestic services (such as ADSL, VDSL, etc).  So you will need to buy a commercial service.  These easily cost 10 to 100 times more.

Next, the technical aspects of running a WISP are only a small part of the picture of running an ISP.  Have you considered how you are going to handle billing, debt collection, taxation compliance, handle complains, handle court orders for discovery of your clients, etc.  What about when you get your first user to bleeds the service dry by sucking up all the bandwidth and results in everyone else complaining?


Maybe 20 years ago there was a place for small niche ISPs, but that time has long since past.  Unless you have at least 10,000 customers you are going to loose money.
Yes I've considered all of those things. I used to work as a SysAdmin at once of NZ's largest ISPs (at the time).

 

I know how to setup all of that stuff.. I would put in place intense monitoring so I could deploy systems to handle such things...Lowest common denominator would be to have billing prepaid and work out from there.

 

As far as complaints and compliance goes - I have experience in this area dealing with requests from Police and DIA, setting up monitoring on customers, handling abuse@ mail and I've had some involvement with aspects of LI.

 

I've also worked closely with Agency Liason in one of the "big three".  

 

 

 

My goal isn't actually to make money as much as it is to have connectivity available everywhere for everyone in the valley.

 

Obviously you build this around a profit driven business model or you will fail.   

 

 

 

It wouldn't necessarily have to be sold as an ISP service per say...but more a community wifi. And I know that typically ADSL/VDSL cannot be sublet but are you telling me that every single McDonalds, Starbucks, Mobile, Cafe Wifi has a Business line to it? Really?

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  # 1325073 15-Jun-2015 15:21
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pdath: Unless you like spending a lot of time making no money or loosing money don't try.

First, most ISP agreements don't allow you to re-sell domestic services (such as ADSL, VDSL, etc).  So you will need to buy a commercial service.  These easily cost 10 to 100 times more.

Next, the technical aspects of running a WISP are only a small part of the picture of running an ISP.  Have you considered how you are going to handle billing, debt collection, taxation compliance, handle complains, handle court orders for discovery of your clients, etc.  What about when you get your first user who bleeds the service dry by sucking up all the bandwidth and results in everyone else complaining?


Maybe 20 years ago there was a place for small niche ISPs, but that time has long since past.  Unless you have at least 10,000 customers you are going to loose money.


It's a captive market, if those people can't get broadband any other way (and lets face it everyone wants good internet these days) then there should be a business case that will build around it.

In my experience of running a web hosting business I had a great debt collection tool. It was called cutting off service.





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  # 1325133 15-Jun-2015 16:02
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pdath: Maybe 20 years ago there was a place for small niche ISPs, but that time has long since past.  Unless you have at least 10,000 customers you are going to loose money.


Rubbish, and there are a growing number of New Zealand business proving you wrong.

I know of at least one guy that was humming along on just 80 customers and is still here today to write about it.





Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


252 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1326246 17-Jun-2015 08:28
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...And I know that typically ADSL/VDSL cannot be sublet but are you telling me that every single McDonalds, Starbucks, Mobile, Cafe Wifi has a Business line to it? Really?


The difference being those businesses are not directly "reselling" bandwidth with the intent to make money from that bandwidth.  They provide the "service" to encourage people into the store and to stay in the store longer.




Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!

252 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1326252 17-Jun-2015 08:31
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DonGould:
pdath: Maybe 20 years ago there was a place for small niche ISPs, but that time has long since past.  Unless you have at least 10,000 customers you are going to loose money.


Rubbish, and there are a growing number of New Zealand business proving you wrong.

I know of at least one guy that was humming along on just 80 customers and is still here today to write about it.



Is that because he hasn't run out of startup capital yet?  Has he been in business more than 24 months?  Perhaps he has some unique selling point that allows him to sell something for more than the typical market value.


It is very hard to run a small ISP - and make a profit.  There are very few small ISPs around.  20 years ago there were heaps of small ISPs around - but I don't need to tell you this.  Your a veteran in this business.




Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!

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