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196 posts

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# 175223 22-Jun-2015 11:57
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Hi

I'm in a position where we need more bandwidth, but we can't get it the normal way (VDSL, Fibre). You'd think this wouldn't be a problem in the auckland CBD, but clearly it is.

So, I was thinking of getting one of the DrayTek routers (29xx?) which have 2+ WAN ports, and 2 ADSL lines (which we can get). And possibly 2 Vigor120's to do the ADSL part.

Has anyone actually _done_ this? I get that the maximum single stream speed would still be whatever a single ADSL line can deliver, but hostestly, it'd be 100% better than what we have (16+ people on 16/1)

It's one of those things which is quite hard to test, 'cos we'd need to get another line in.... but I'd rather not order another line until we know it'll work.... chicken, meet egg.

Thanks!

Nic





Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


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  # 1329131 22-Jun-2015 11:57
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  # 1329330 22-Jun-2015 15:13
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If the Draytek can't do it, you can definitely do it with Cisco gear.. but obviously you need fistfuls of cash :-)






Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1329346 22-Jun-2015 15:33
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nic.wise:... I was thinking of getting one of the DrayTek routers (29xx?) which have 2+ WAN ports, and 2 ADSL lines (which we can get). And possibly 2 Vigor120's to do the ADSL part. ...


Yes, it works.

Ten years ago I ran an office (50 seats) through 2 x ADSL lines (no fibre or VDSL was available) - two modems (entry-level, supplied by the ISP) and a dual WAN gigabit router (Netgear FVS366G - now superseded).

No Draytek gear - but your proposed Draytek setup should work just as well.




Sideface


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  # 1329349 22-Jun-2015 15:37
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Keep us updated OP - I am keen to know this







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  # 1329350 22-Jun-2015 15:40
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Thanks everyone. Going to get the second line, and then try the draytek gear (person with the $$$$s approves :) )

Of course, this is a big corporate, so it could be a while, but will update / make a new thread once I have it running. Or not running... 





Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


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  # 1329354 22-Jun-2015 16:00
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nic.wise: Thanks everyone. Going to get the second line, and then try the draytek gear (person with the $$$$s approves :) )

Of course, this is a big corporate, so it could be a while, but will update / make a new thread once I have it running. Or not running... 



If this is a big corporate, surely you can afford 'business UFB'? ;-P





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  # 1329356 22-Jun-2015 16:03
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nic.wise: Thanks everyone. Going to get the second line, and then try the draytek gear (person with the $$$$s approves :) )

Of course, this is a big corporate, so it could be a while, but will update / make a new thread once I have it running. Or not running... 



Even if "load balanacing mode" does not work, you will still need a second ADSL line, two modems, and a router  wink




Sideface


 
 
 
 


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  # 1329357 22-Jun-2015 16:04
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nic.wise: Hi

I'm in a position where we need more bandwidth, but we can't get it the normal way (VDSL, Fibre). You'd think this wouldn't be a problem in the auckland CBD, but clearly it is.

So, I was thinking of getting one of the DrayTek routers (29xx?) which have 2+ WAN ports, and 2 ADSL lines (which we can get). And possibly 2 Vigor120's to do the ADSL part.

Has anyone actually _done_ this? I get that the maximum single stream speed would still be whatever a single ADSL line can deliver, but hostestly, it'd be 100% better than what we have (16+ people on 16/1)

It's one of those things which is quite hard to test, 'cos we'd need to get another line in.... but I'd rather not order another line until we know it'll work.... chicken, meet egg.

Thanks!

Nic



I'm not up with the play, but there's a couple of ways to "load balance". Ideally you want the technology whos name I cant remember where you effectively split your packets below the IP layer.
I think your ISP has to support it tho.
This way you get only one IP address and it does load balance properly (single tcp stream balances gets full bandwidth), only one account with the ISP required, etc.
Any other way (across multiple IP addresses) is going to give you trouble.



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  # 1329358 22-Jun-2015 16:05
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nakedmolerat: 

If this is a big corporate, surely you can afford 'business UFB'? ;-P


You would think so. But being in the Auckland CBD (think big blue-topped building....) VDSL and UFB are not available, and due to some internal politics, jumping on the internal, and VERY well provisioned, corporate network isn't going to happen.




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz




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  # 1329360 22-Jun-2015 16:08
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Publius: 

I'm not up with the play, but there's a couple of ways to "load balance". Ideally you want the technology whos name I cant remember where you effectively split your packets below the IP layer.
I think your ISP has to support it tho.
This way you get only one IP address and it does load balance properly (single tcp stream balances gets full bandwidth), only one account with the ISP required, etc.
Any other way (across multiple IP addresses) is going to give you trouble.


Yup, thats bonding, and I'm told it's possible, but difficult to setup. We dont really need all the bandwidth in one IP stream - but having 2 streams going single-line-fullspeed at the same time would be useful.

In an ideal world, we'd just have a big fibre line. But this is the last-resort type situation.

Would LB over 2 lines (and hence 2 IPs) be a problem? Surely the router just picks one side of the WAN or the other for the length of time the NAT is open? We dont need incoming LB at all, just outbound.




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz




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  # 1329362 22-Jun-2015 16:10
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Sideface: 

Even if "load balanacing mode" does not work, you will still need a second ADSL line, two modems, and a router  wink


Correct. I have the order form on my desk now, for the 2nd ADSL line :)




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1329363 22-Jun-2015 16:10
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nic.wise:
Publius: 

I'm not up with the play, but there's a couple of ways to "load balance". Ideally you want the technology whos name I cant remember where you effectively split your packets below the IP layer.
I think your ISP has to support it tho.
This way you get only one IP address and it does load balance properly (single tcp stream balances gets full bandwidth), only one account with the ISP required, etc.
Any other way (across multiple IP addresses) is going to give you trouble.


Yup, thats bonding, and I'm told it's possible, but difficult to setup. We dont really need all the bandwidth in one IP stream - but having 2 streams going single-line-fullspeed at the same time would be useful.

In an ideal world, we'd just have a big fibre line. But this is the last-resort type situation.

Would LB over 2 lines (and hence 2 IPs) be a problem? Surely the router just picks one side of the WAN or the other for the length of time the NAT is open? We dont need incoming LB at all, just outbound.


You can only have one default route.



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  # 1329373 22-Jun-2015 16:29
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Publius: 

You can only have one default route.


My understanding is that the router handles that.

So internally we have a single route, and the router then splits it over 2 WAN modems (PPPoE I'd guess?)

So:

192.168.1.* GW 192.168.1.1

--->

192.168.1.1 (router with 2 WAN ports)

--> WAN 1 modem  -> internet (public IP 1)
--> WAN 2 modem  -> internet (public IP 2)

and if it's PPPoE, with modem 1 and 2 in bridge mode, then the 2 WAN ports on the router are effectively using the public addresses..






Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz




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  # 1353206 28-Jul-2015 10:52
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OK, so I said I'd post back once I had this working.

And I have this working. And, given the constraints, it's works REALLY WELL.

I got a Vigor 2860 (with no wifi) and a Vigor130. Set the 130 in the usual PPPoE server mode thing that everyone uses them for, and plugged it into the 2860's WAN2 port, along with the ADSL into the other WAN port, and.... job done.

The load balancing is automatic, assuming you want 50/50 (or least-loaded gets used), tho you can say "80% down this line, 20% down this one", or even "this remote IP goes down this WAN port" etc.

I setup a VPN endpoint on the router which works great (again, within the 16/1 speed constraints). Took me about 2 hours, all up, from start to finish, and at least an hour of that was testing the VPN.

I can get 30Mbps out of it if I get 2 streams going, or 16 max for 1 stream. it's made a hell of a difference to the users. Not bad for $600 + my time.

Once I get UFB at home (Feb-16) I think I'll get a 2860 as the router for that (planning on getting 200/20 or 200/200), rather than using my Airport Extreme as the router. Just for the VPN termination it'd be worth it.

Cheers for the help everyone.




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1353493 28-Jul-2015 15:25
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Have you looked at the ubiquiti edge router series, I understand they do well with vpn and can also handle dual wan bonding. 


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