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  # 1358391 4-Aug-2015 09:54
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networkn:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.


I never suggested they had to be free!

I do, however. The average end user can barely operate a cordless phone, let alone purchase, install and maintain a UPS. Should be part and parcel with wiring integration installs, or at a minimum another paid option during install.

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  # 1358402 4-Aug-2015 10:09
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toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.


I never suggested they had to be free!

I do, however. The average end user can barely operate a cordless phone, let alone purchase, install and maintain a UPS. Should be part and parcel with wiring integration installs, or at a minimum another paid option during install.


The reasons for not making a UPS mandatory as part of a UFB install are many, and this whole issue was discussed in depth my the industry (and Government) as part of the 111 emergency calling review circa 2011 that was open to public consultation.


 
 
 
 




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  # 1358404 4-Aug-2015 10:11
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sbiddle:
toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.


I never suggested they had to be free!

I do, however. The average end user can barely operate a cordless phone, let alone purchase, install and maintain a UPS. Should be part and parcel with wiring integration installs, or at a minimum another paid option during install.


The reasons for not making a UPS mandatory as part of a UFB install are many, and this whole issue was discussed in depth my the industry (and Government) as part of the 111 emergency calling review circa 2011 that was open to public consultation.



I work in the fringe of the industry and didn't know about any public consultation, so I'd seriously doubt the vast majority of consumers had any idea it was happening. I am not arguing with the outcome, I could care less, I'll buy a UPS if I need it, but I think public consultation is a pretty generous term when
most people didn't even know it was happening. I wonder how many submissions they got.

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  # 1358407 4-Aug-2015 10:12
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sbiddle:
toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.


I never suggested they had to be free!

I do, however. The average end user can barely operate a cordless phone, let alone purchase, install and maintain a UPS. Should be part and parcel with wiring integration installs, or at a minimum another paid option during install.


The reasons for not making a UPS mandatory as part of a UFB install are many, and this whole issue was discussed in depth my the industry (and Government) as part of the 111 emergency calling review circa 2011 that was open to public consultation.



I'm not saying mandatory, but an explained option. Most customers who I talk to are surprised and made wary when I warn that no power = no phone.

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  # 1358411 4-Aug-2015 10:15
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networkn:
sbiddle:
toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.


I never suggested they had to be free!

I do, however. The average end user can barely operate a cordless phone, let alone purchase, install and maintain a UPS. Should be part and parcel with wiring integration installs, or at a minimum another paid option during install.


The reasons for not making a UPS mandatory as part of a UFB install are many, and this whole issue was discussed in depth my the industry (and Government) as part of the 111 emergency calling review circa 2011 that was open to public consultation.



I work in the fringe of the industry and didn't know about any public consultation, so I'd seriously doubt the vast majority of consumers had any idea it was happening. I am not arguing with the outcome, I could care less, I'll buy a UPS if I need it, but I think public consultation is a pretty generous term when
most people didn't even know it was happening. I wonder how many submissions they got.


It was actually 2012, and it was exceptionally well publicised within the industry for a discussion paper/document. There were also a number of mainstream media articles on the issue at the time because of the significance (mainstream media love 111 stories)

I wrote a blog about it at the time http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/7974



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  # 1358497 4-Aug-2015 11:22
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networkn: FTR, not that it's any of your business, but the customer CAN'T GET FIBRE, and even if he could, HE STILL WANTS POTS LINES!


If he can't get fibre then that's a whole other story, that's just not how I read your opening post.

I think your initial question has been well answered.

As this is a discussion forum, I'm always keen to just discuss issues that also come to mind around a topic. 

Please don't be offended by my thoughts and point of view.  I think if you feel the need to hit the caps lock button then you really need to just ignore my comment and leave it.  As you say, there's nothing to be gained from an argument.

:)






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  # 1358500 4-Aug-2015 11:24
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toejam316: I'm not saying mandatory, but an explained option. Most customers who I talk to are surprised and made wary when I warn that no power = no phone.


Yes, this is why I continue to engage in general discussion around these issues because actually no power meaning no land line really isn't a problem is it? 

I think this is just a matter of getting people to think about the fact that they just reach for their mobiles.

We have to move forward with technology.




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  # 1358537 4-Aug-2015 11:30
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DonGould:
toejam316: I'm not saying mandatory, but an explained option. Most customers who I talk to are surprised and made wary when I warn that no power = no phone.


Yes, this is why I continue to engage in general discussion around these issues because actually no power meaning no land line really isn't a problem is it? 

I think this is just a matter of getting people to think about the fact that they just reach for their mobiles.

We have to move forward with technology.

You've also gotta keep in mind a tower will overload much quicker than. A fixed line, due to limits on transmission bandwidth/channels. Fixed line access doesn't suffer nearly as badly.

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  # 1358559 4-Aug-2015 11:48
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toejam316:
DonGould:
toejam316: I'm not saying mandatory, but an explained option. Most customers who I talk to are surprised and made wary when I warn that no power = no phone.


Yes, this is why I continue to engage in general discussion around these issues because actually no power meaning no land line really isn't a problem is it? 

I think this is just a matter of getting people to think about the fact that they just reach for their mobiles.

We have to move forward with technology.

You've also gotta keep in mind a tower will overload much quicker than. A fixed line, due to limits on transmission bandwidth/channels. Fixed line access doesn't suffer nearly as badly.


Yes agreed, mobile operators learnt a lot in Christchurch.

If you have an earthquake the copper cables get pulled out of the cabinet. 
If you have a flood the water rises up over the battery supply.

Carriers also need to have enough inter-carrier capacity for stuff like sms messages.

On a personal level we also learnt more about what's really important when disaster strikes. In my view it's about looking after the people around you, not chasing all over the city.  That means that I worked on getting eftpos working again for my local dairy, not racing over the other side of town where my extended family was.  I just had to assume that someone else over there was looking after them.






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  # 1358879 4-Aug-2015 18:14
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Alarms are the reason we still provision POTS lines. People aren't willing to pay for the GSM units to be installed.

It's becoming such a pain we are just paying for the install as our margins on SIP trunks are so so so much better than POTS it pays to get people off them!

For a provider though, Spark is still the best IMO. They just seem to be better at doing stuff on the PSTN when it comes to adding/removing serivces etc, slightly more technical requests like pilot/stepper arrangements and things. I suppose they've had about 30 years more experience than everyone else!

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  # 1359018 4-Aug-2015 23:06
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chevrolux: Alarms are the reason we still provision POTS lines. People aren't willing to pay for the GSM units to be installed.


How much are they?

I was looking at GSM car alarms the other day for $12USD

I can get an IP module for an alarm for $40 from my local wholesaler.

What's the disconnect here?





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  # 1359020 4-Aug-2015 23:16
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DonGould:
networkn: FTR, not that it's any of your business, but the customer CAN'T GET FIBRE, and even if he could, HE STILL WANTS POTS LINES!


If he can't get fibre then that's a whole other story, that's just not how I read your opening post.

I think your initial question has been well answered.

As this is a discussion forum, I'm always keen to just discuss issues that also come to mind around a topic. 

Please don't be offended by my thoughts and point of view.  I think if you feel the need to hit the caps lock button then you really need to just ignore my comment and leave it.  As you say, there's nothing to be gained from an argument.

:)




I think you mean MISread. I am fine with discussions, that relate to the post, but yours should have been in a discussion around the validity of offering copper lines not one asking for a list of providers who offer them. I didn't ask for anyones opinion on the solution, I asked for a list.

The only replies required are those which confirm which providers offer what I am asking for. As usual your posts head off on a tangent and don't address the issue.

Rather than ask someone to not be offended, how about not causing the conflict in the first place by contributing in the manner requested or not at all.

There is a saying my Grandfather taught me, that goes "Better to say nought and appear a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt".

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  # 1359035 4-Aug-2015 23:57
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toejam316:
sbiddle:
toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.


I never suggested they had to be free!

I do, however. The average end user can barely operate a cordless phone, let alone purchase, install and maintain a UPS. Should be part and parcel with wiring integration installs, or at a minimum another paid option during install.


The reasons for not making a UPS mandatory as part of a UFB install are many, and this whole issue was discussed in depth my the industry (and Government) as part of the 111 emergency calling review circa 2011 that was open to public consultation.



I'm not saying mandatory, but an explained option. Most customers who I talk to are surprised and made wary when I warn that no power = no phone.


ime most people are already in that situation relying on cordless phones that don't work without power.

i'm not a big fan of landlines myself, but lots of people are, and i don't think it's unreasonable to want such.  i also really don't want a ups for my phone.  if such was a requirement for ufb i would see it is a big drawback.  hell i think it's bad enough that there's an ont at all, let alone one with voip ports.

anyway at the end of the day, people shouldn't need to justify their desire for a landline.  although looking at telecom's web site it does seem prohibitively expensive these days.

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  # 1359037 5-Aug-2015 00:25
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mercutio: ...
i'm not a big fan of landlines myself, but lots of people are, and i don't think it's unreasonable to want such.  i also really don't want a ups for my phone.  if such was a requirement for ufb i would see it is a big drawback.  hell i think it's bad enough that there's an ont at all, let alone one with voip ports.

anyway at the end of the day, people shouldn't need to justify their desire for a landline.  although looking at telecom's web site it does seem prohibitively expensive these days.

People also need to get used to the idea that the copper network will be shut down at some point in areas where fibre has been rolled out.  There's no way that Chorus is going to keep both networks running indefinitely as their ongoing costs are more than doubled due to the increasingly unreliability of the aging copper cables.

Running things on battery backup is the way of the future with mobile phones, tablets and routers all able to keep going for many hours without power.  The key point being that equipment which needs to keep functioning during a power outage has to be power efficient which rules out desktop PCs, large monitors, TVs and the like.

I'm thinking seriously about one of those Dynamix UPS units which Jase2985 mentioned a while back.  For just over $100 it will avoid the issues which sometimes plague me here in the Far North where we have frequent power outages.  Many of them are very short-lived, but I've had my HDD corrupted in the past, and needed to reformat and reinstall.  With a small UPS, this could be completely avoided, with sufficient time to do an orderly shut down.





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