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  Reply # 1456850 25-Dec-2015 00:22
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It does look like it...it was working earlier today :(

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  Reply # 1456878 25-Dec-2015 07:19
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sbiddle: The whole satiation poses lots of interesting questions, particularly around what Voyager have done.

What they did over the weekend was incredibly smart (and cunning). By putting up the captive portal and signing up many Integr8 customers on contracts they've effectively made the customer base that was purchased worthless - which raises all sorts of questions about the liquidation process. It does rely on some big assumption (which I assume Voyager would have had legal advice on) and that's the status of contracts those people had with Integr8 previously. If those contracts are not deemed null and void by the company going into liquidation then the buyer of the customer base will certainly have issues with what Voyager have done.

There are lots of questions that come out of it - but without a good understanding of contract law and liquidations it's going to be well beyond most of us. At the end of the day it does show the issues that can arise if your services are only being rebilled by a middleman.




The company itself was not purchased. The company put into liquidation will have it's contracts nullified. This is law. 

Had the new Inter8 PURCHASED the company, under it's original trading name, and honoured it's original terms, then those customers would have been obliged to honour their own.

I recall a few years ago, after purchasing a business, being taken to small claims over a refund for a troublesome computer for a customer of the prior company. I had purchased the customers, but not the actual company and the DT ruled in my favour instantly because they couldn't compel me to refund them
for another companies sale. Same thing would happen in reverse with a contract. 

Original Contracts are Null unless original company is taken out of liquidation and original shareholders force back into the market, but they would fall foul of lots of other issues like the fact the business was effectively incapacitated and customers had no ability to have their side of the contract honoured, so thus rendering the contract
Null and Void. 

The FINANCE company leases are STILL legally intact and they MUST be honoured.  You will find that the contract with Advaro will state it's contract is NOT dependant on the the Intergr8 one.

It's a hideous scheme.

Even if I could have thought of it, my morals would prevent me making money, in this manner. 

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1456884 25-Dec-2015 07:33
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sbiddle: The whole satiation poses lots of interesting questions, particularly around what Voyager have done.

What they did over the weekend was incredibly smart (and cunning). By putting up the captive portal and signing up many Integr8 customers on contracts they've effectively made the customer base that was purchased worthless - which raises all sorts of questions about the liquidation process. It does rely on some big assumption (which I assume Voyager would have had legal advice on) and that's the status of contracts those people had with Integr8 previously. If those contracts are not deemed null and void by the company going into liquidation then the buyer of the customer base will certainly have issues with what Voyager have done.

There are lots of questions that come out of it - but without a good understanding of contract law and liquidations it's going to be well beyond most of us. At the end of the day it does show the issues that can arise if your services are only being rebilled by a middleman.




I think thats the key here. Liquidation means that the sole purpose is to liquidate the assets to satisfy the secured creditors and unsecured. Its not to satisfy past purchasers of the products. A brick and mortar business will have many assets. Land and Buildings, plant, car fleet, office furniture, IT gear. I suspect Integr8 had very very little hard assets. That the customer database was sold quickly may well show that was pretty much it. If it was a toaster factory, our toasters still work, without now a warranty. However, a services company like this just ends, leaving every customer in the lurch. It will surely push businesses wanting RSP services to the larger telco's, or cause the demise of all teeny niche ones. 

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  Reply # 1456886 25-Dec-2015 07:35
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networkn:
sbiddle: The whole satiation poses lots of interesting questions, particularly around what Voyager have done.

What they did over the weekend was incredibly smart (and cunning). By putting up the captive portal and signing up many Integr8 customers on contracts they've effectively made the customer base that was purchased worthless - which raises all sorts of questions about the liquidation process. It does rely on some big assumption (which I assume Voyager would have had legal advice on) and that's the status of contracts those people had with Integr8 previously. If those contracts are not deemed null and void by the company going into liquidation then the buyer of the customer base will certainly have issues with what Voyager have done.

There are lots of questions that come out of it - but without a good understanding of contract law and liquidations it's going to be well beyond most of us. At the end of the day it does show the issues that can arise if your services are only being rebilled by a middleman.




The company itself was not purchased. The company put into liquidation will have it's contracts nullified. This is law. 

Had the new Inter8 PURCHASED the company, under it's original trading name, and honoured it's original terms, then those customers would have been obliged to honour their own.

I recall a few years ago, after purchasing a business, being taken to small claims over a refund for a troublesome computer for a customer of the prior company. I had purchased the customers, but not the actual company and the DT ruled in my favour instantly because they couldn't compel me to refund them
for another companies sale. Same thing would happen in reverse with a contract. 

Original Contracts are Null unless original company is taken out of liquidation and original shareholders force back into the market, but they would fall foul of lots of other issues like the fact the business was effectively incapacitated and customers had no ability to have their side of the contract honoured, so thus rendering the contract
Null and Void. 

The FINANCE company leases are STILL legally intact and they MUST be honoured.  You will find that the contract with Advaro will state it's contract is NOT dependant on the the Intergr8 one.

It's a hideous scheme.

Even if I could have thought of it, my morals would prevent me making money, in this manner. 


Perhaps that word summarises the situation. Business model vs Scheme.




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  Reply # 1456934 25-Dec-2015 08:48
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old3eyes:
quickymart: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11565944


Looks like the links dead..


I still had it cached. Here you go:

Former customers of collapsed telco Intagr8 say internet issues are causing chaos before Christmas, with no clear explanation being given.

The troubled telco was placed into voluntary liquidation last week, owing creditors including Vodafone and internet service provider Voyager about $2 million and leaving customers in the lurch after a lengthy investigation by the Commerce Commission into its sales tactics. The commission had numerous complaints from customers accusing the business of misrepresentation.

Intagr8 offered a product known as "telephone bundling" - providing customers with equipment such as phones, printers and security cameras alongside its telecommunications services. Equipment was usually rented through a finance company.

Since Intagr8 went into liquidation, customers say they have been receiving mixed messages from Intagr8 and its new owner, RS Comms, as well as emails from Voyager - an internet service provider run by entrepreneur Seeby Woodhouse which many of Intagr8's customers shifted to after the telco's collapse.

In an email to customers yesterday Voyager accused Intagr8 of organising the bulk transfer of customers' internet accounts without their consent - a practice known in the industry as slamming.

The alleged transfer caused internet outages for about 300 of Voyager's customers among others.

It appears that "overnight RS Comms Ltd, Trading as Intagr8, has transferred a large number of working Voyager retail broadband connections to 2Degrees wholesale without gaining prior consent from customers, meaning that a large number of formerly working Voyager broadband connections are now offline", Voyager claimed.

"Approximately 70 per cent of former customers of Intagr8 had requested to use Voyager for their broadband connections and the process of transferring these connections to another provider by RS Comms has caused downtime, changes of IP addresses, customer confusion and potential double billing issues for customers," Voyager alleged.

The Herald made several attempts but could not reach Intagr8 for comment. A former Intagr8 customer, Simon Jennings, said internet outages over the past week had caused issues for him and his business, HMB Marine Electrical, and that he had been receiving mixed messages from the company.

"It has caused us a lot of hassles right at the busiest time of year," Jennings said.
"Also the stress of not having the internet on Monday when I got to work and the worry of the phones possibly being disconnected any time."

Voyager said it believed the liquidator of the company had "hastily and we believe unethically" sold some of Intagr8's business assets to the new trading company, RS Comms. Voyager on Wednesday sent a cease and desist letter to RS Comms, asking it to stop alleged unauthorised customer transfers by Thursday evening, or it would seek a court injunction.

Voyager said it and other creditors were unhappy with the way the liquidation process had been conducted.

"It is important to understand that the 'new Intagr8' is not the old Intagr8 Ltd business, it is simply someone with a list of customer contacts and some business assets," Voyager said in an email to customers.

"As the company 'Intagr8 Ltd' now no longer exists, any contracts that customers had with Intagr8 Ltd we believe are null and void."

In an email from Intagr8 to customers on Tuesday, the telco said it was back up and running after outages over the weekend through to Monday, and said if customers had transferred to other providers in the meantime they would still be billed for equipment separately, meaning they would "almost certainly pay more".

A spokesman from the Commerce Commission earlier in the year said it had received complaints dating back to 2012 which had resulted in a "compliance advice" letter being sent to the company.

Initial complaints were resolved, however more recent complaints around similar issues had triggered a further ongoing investigation.




Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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  Reply # 1456968 25-Dec-2015 10:49
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sbiddle: The whole satiation poses lots of interesting questions, particularly around what Voyager have done.

What they did over the weekend was incredibly smart (and cunning). By putting up the captive portal and signing up many Integr8 customers on contracts they've effectively made the customer base that was purchased worthless - which raises all sorts of questions about the liquidation process. It does rely on some big assumption (which I assume Voyager would have had legal advice on) and that's the status of contracts those people had with Integr8 previously. If those contracts are not deemed null and void by the company going into liquidation then the buyer of the customer base will certainly have issues with what Voyager have done.

There are lots of questions that come out of it - but without a good understanding of contract law and liquidations it's going to be well beyond most of us. At the end of the day it does show the issues that can arise if your services are only being rebilled by a middleman.



I think Voyager did the best thing it could by those clients by providing them a quick way to get back online. Voyager could have just cut them off. They are in the hole for hundreds of thousands remember and had to stop their losses.




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  Reply # 1456970 25-Dec-2015 10:52
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Spoke to an affected client on Wednesday who has checked their paperwork. They were persuaded (by price) to re-sign early about 6 months ago. It seems they have signed a contract to finance hardware, however no new hardware was wanted or delivered -they kept the 4.5 year old gear.

These guys will try and get out of the finance company deal based on fraudulence by Intagr8 re this hardware. Could be an interesting battle.




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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  Reply # 1456983 25-Dec-2015 11:32
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Like I said earlier - I wonder what the customer who was singing this guy's praises thinks of him now he's fled the country (leaving his paying customers in the lurch)?

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  Reply # 1457042 25-Dec-2015 13:12
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michaelmurfy:
old3eyes:
quickymart: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11565944


Looks like the links dead..


I still had it cached. Here you go:

(snip)
It appears that "overnight RS Comms Ltd, Trading as Intagr8, has transferred a large number of working Voyager retail broadband connections to 2Degrees wholesale without gaining prior consent from customers, meaning that a large number of formerly working Voyager broadband connections are now offline", Voyager claimed.
(snip)


I was rather surprised about this bit, I would've thought 2D would stay clear, my expectations were on another company in particular to be involved.

I say this for 2 reasons, first off 2D have more of a reputation/brand to defend than some, and they would surely have people in the know that have seen what happened to Voyager, they'd surely know that they were running the risk of slamming accusations.

Secondly, I'm surprised that company setup + wholesale agreements were completed in just a week (the week of Christmas more so), the bits aren't even dry at the Companies Registry, there is just a placeholder for "RS Comms Ltd" at the moment.

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  Reply # 1461123 4-Jan-2016 18:53
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An update from the Herald (posting the text in case they remove this article too):

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11569140

Intagr8 Ltd, which was placed in liquidation last month after failing to pay creditors, ran an "unsustainable business model" with upfront sales revenue too meager to cover the cost of inducements for new customers to its bundled telephone and equipment deals, the liquidator says.

 

The collapse before Christmas left thousands of small and medium-sized businesses without telecommunications and internet services.

 

Steven Khov and Damien Grant of Waterstone Insolvency were unable to estimate the total assets of the company or its liabilities in their first report as liquidators. A creditors meeting has been called tentatively for January 16 where the liquidators expect to give an update.

 

The liquidators didn't immediately return calls. Grant was quoted in media reports this month saying the business had monthly turnover of about $1 million and staff were being kept on pending the sale. Vodafone made up about 70 percent of Intagr8's creditors by dollar value, reports said.

 

The liquidator's report, while short on financial details, says Intagr8 "ran an unsustainable business model with the upfront sales revenue insufficient to cover the cost of the credits offered to induce sign ups."

 

"The liquidators are also aware that the failure of the business can also be attributed to a major supplier withdrawing telco services affecting the ability of the company to provide on-going services to customers," it said.

 

"The ability of the company and the liquidators to limit the damage to the business as a result of the withdrawal and subsequent media statement regarding the withdrawal has severely diminished the value of the business in the hours following liquidation."

 

Making matters worse for the company, several suppliers had withdrawn services to the company and "began to actively convert customers of the company, further diminishing the viability and value of the business."

 

The liquidators said they would investigate the affairs of the company to determine if any insolvent transactions had occurred or if any company officers had been in breach of their duties.

 

Intagr8's sole shareholder and director is listed as Murray Taylor, according to the Companies Office. Taylor, who has reportedly left the country, blamed bad publicity after Vodafone severed ties with the company for its demise. Vodafone is owed about $1 million and is listed among 20 known creditors in the liquidators report, along with UDC Finance, ANZ Bank, Westpac New Zealand, the Inland Revenue Department and financing company Advaro, ultimately owned by a Maui Capital fund.

 

The liquidators have already sold Intagr8's business and remaining customer database to a new company reportedly called RS Comms, although that name is showing only as an approved name on the Companies Office.

 

2Degrees corporate affairs director Mathew Bolland said the new owner had contracted with 2Degrees to be a wholesale supplier for the business, although billing and other services were Intagr8's responsibility.

 

Intagr8 has been investigated by the Commerce Commission over complaints about its sales practices and confusion among customers about who they have contracted with.

 

Earlier this month, Advaro said it was in talks with the new owner and that "those Intagr8 customers with hardware rental agreements with Advaro continue on the same terms and the rentals remain payable to Advaro."

 

Advaro defended its existing customer contracts, saying they had "always been clear about how the funding works".

 

"This includes information about who is the owner (the finance company) and who is the renter (the customer)," Advaro chief executive Joe Duncan said in a statement.

 

"As a result, we received very few complaints from Intagr8 customers before the newspaper publicity - under 2 percent of our total Intagr8 customer base."

 

In a statement in 2014, How Intagr8 Works, the company said it "combines telecommunication hardware alongside telecommunication billing, offering rental agreements to a market of small to medium-sized businesses applying the funds already being spent with current telecommunication providers."

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  Reply # 1461564 5-Jan-2016 12:25
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Haha 'unsustainable' is an under statement...
We installed a system for a company down Christchurch way that had been seen by an Intagr8 sales person. They were offered an equipment rental of $250/month and then call credits of $500/month. We simply said 'if a company is effectively paying you to take their product something can't be right'.

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