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  Reply # 1473430 17-Jan-2016 23:29
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I think it's time for a group of people or a company to start distribution of a unified public WiFi network. Fon would be a good choice.




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  Reply # 1473436 18-Jan-2016 05:20
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Good on your for replying and explaining that Don, although I guess my personal take on it is if you're spending time with friends/family camping like that, why would you want to spend it looking at your phone? Myself, I'd be spending my time catching up with people I haven't seen in a long, long time and leaving things like Trademe for when everyone had gone to bed and I can concentrate.

 

I'll actually be in a somewhat similar boat to you in a couple of months, going on holiday to the coast to see relatives. They have good reception on Vodafone and Spark, and their broadband is okay, so not quite the same as your situation. But (for myself) the last thing I'll be worrying about is what the data availability is like - I'll be far too busy catching up with everyone, some of whom I haven't seen for almost 2 years. That's my priority for a family holiday, not worrying about what I'm missing online - but I concur, each to their own.

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  Reply # 1473439 18-Jan-2016 06:24
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dukester: I use the 2 degree share data option. I have a sim in my iPad. We do a lot of camping around Twizel, Tekapo, Fairlie. So far I have had coverage every where except Temona gorge.
There are map apps you can download that don't require a data connection to work.

 

We were camping in Waikauau Bay over xmas and my Ipad Air 2 had coverage where my iPhone 6S+ didn't, both on Vodafone

 

Can't say I minded, and was pleased to only have found this out the day before we left.

 

I think you need to find a different camping ground, perhaps call them up and find out if they have 3/4G coverage on your network before you book.

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  Reply # 1473440 18-Jan-2016 06:30
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RunningMan:
scuwp: Personally I prefer holidays "off the grid" and am pleased these places still exist. If you don't like it perhaps factor that into your holiday choices.


If you'll excuse the pun, I'm in this camp.

Having said that, I think some of what Don is getting at is not so much people going on holiday to get away from work (where off the grid is good), but tourists and other travellers where connectivity is important coming into and staying in an area for longer, and therefore contributing financially to that area while they are there.

 

Or you could TALK to someone, the camp ground manager, other campers, local or go exploring for yourself.

 

Are we really saying we have gotten to the point where we cannot function adequately without a mobile device?

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  Reply # 1473442 18-Jan-2016 07:15
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DonGould: MF - It still staggers me that my phone stops working in the train tunnels in Wellington.  

 

Radio waves are line of sight and have a hard job getting through large amounts of rock, you should notice that it gets dark in the tunnels, light is also on the electromagnetic spectrum. Similarly radio waves won't reach all valleys, gulleys, reentrants and caves.

 

There is no viable business case for providing mobile coverage in the Maymorn and Rimutuka tunnels, we don't even have electrification, the trains are hauled by diesel locomotives. In fact, you hardly get coverage at Maymorn itself, let alone in the tunnels. If the concern is safety, they have procedures for train break downs, the train requires a token/permission to be on the single track, and people will simply walk out to the nearest exit.

 

If you do the Tararua Southern Crossing you get good coverage on, say, Mt Hector because you have line of sight to the Wairarapa, to Kapiti and Wellington itself. If you go in the valleys, ie, put a large piece of rock between you and the transmitters you lose coverage. That is the way it goes.

 

This is New Zealand, it has a small population, large land mass for the population, and technically difficult landscape. These tunnels are not the underground in London.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  Reply # 1473467 18-Jan-2016 08:21
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I like Don's suggestion of people getting acquainted with the Off button.

I also think data should be everywhere and NZ tech is not passionate enough. Having said that there are practical limits to the financial viability of deploying data to some locations.

I always wanted something like FON I New Zealand. Or even like Telstra WiFi is doing in Australia. But damn those pesky copyright laws...




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  Reply # 1473595 18-Jan-2016 10:53
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freitasm:

I always wanted something like FON I New Zealand. Or even like Telstra WiFi is doing in Australia. But damn those pesky copyright laws...

 

NOW in Napier have a great system. The router they provide to many of their customers in hawkes bay has a dual SSID. The guest SSID runs a vpn back to their network core where they have a hotspot controller. It is tunneled in such a way that the copyright laws are not a limitation.

 

You can use your home broadband data on any of their guest hotspots around hawkes bay.

 

 

 

Also didnt Orcon try something similar a few years ago with a hotspot outfit whose name I cant remember right now?




Ray Taylor
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  Reply # 1473888 18-Jan-2016 15:21
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BT do it in the UK, its a brilliant idea, Im sure those that know how could get some govt funding for it, not that the Fons' are expensive anyway.




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  Reply # 1473902 18-Jan-2016 15:43
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roobarb:  Radio waves are line of sight and have a hard job getting through large amounts of rock, you should notice that it gets dark in the tunnels, light is also on the electromagnetic spectrum. Similarly radio waves won't reach all valleys, gulleys, reentrants and caves. There is no viable business case for providing mobile coverage in the Maymorn and Rimutuka tunnels, we don't even have electrification, the trains are hauled by diesel locomotives. ... These tunnels are not the underground in London. 

 

But KiwiRail have UHF/VHF coverage through the tunnels for train control, so while they're not the London Underground, a lot of the infrastructure must be in place. That very small piece of the problem probably is fixable without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per tunnel.

 

 



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  Reply # 1474959 19-Jan-2016 22:14
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freitasm: I like Don's suggestion of people getting acquainted with the Off button.

 

I think it's critical that we talk more about this as a community too. 

 

Folk are right in suggesting that when I take a holiday I need to disconnect to a point and just spend time with the folk I'm on holiday with.  I need to not let technology just rule my life.

 

But I think I need to learn and use words.  I need to be able to use the 'auto response' on my email and just tell people I'm not available.  I need to update my voice mail message. 

 

"You", need to accept that position too and respect my right to some privacy for a few days.

 

But this 'holiday' was also about my desire to be able to work from this remote location for a few days.  On the Sunday I did just turn off my phone.  But on Monday I needed to be available to take calls.  I don't get many calls and those that I do get are generally quite important (to me personally from a business point of view).

 

Addiction to technology is a serious health problem too.  Others are right in their suggestion that we do need to consider the question of having 'off grid' areas that people can go because they simply can't control their technology addiction unless it's simply forced on them.

freitasm: I also think data should be everywhere and NZ tech is not passionate enough. Having said that there are practical limits to the financial viability of deploying data to some locations.

 

MF I know I don't need to tell you that when I say "all of New Zealand" I really mean "more of New Zealand, within the bounds of what's possible".

 

You're right, in the suggestion, that others following have just taken a very black and white view of my initial rant.

 

But "financial" is what this is all about too.

 

As a country we do need to continue to invest more if we want to see tourists coming here.  Tourists in 2025 are 15 today and they're very connected.  Today's 20 year olds are simply not as connected as they will be in just 5 years time. 

 

But I also know that it takes 5 years to get infrastructure in place from when you start the ball rolling, hence why I'm here having a bit of a rant.

 


freitasm: I always wanted something like FON I New Zealand. Or even like Telstra WiFi is doing in Australia. But damn those pesky copyright laws...

 

 

 

FON does look interesting, it's something that I didn't know about and I'm going to have a bit more of a look at.   At first glance it does look like something to pay attention to and have a crack at simply because of the relationships that are involved with other communities around the world.  We're to small to just 'go it alone'.

 

I was also wanting more feed back and comment on the LTE technology in the GURL space, something that I know is going to make some shudder about.  I need to get my mobile calls to me in these areas that aren't covered, but it needs to be in a sensible way.

 

TV1 ran an interesting news article last night.  It showed some great stuff (I wonder if someone was watching GZ and thought it interesting to smash out a news item), but what got my attention was the amount of infrastructure the users in the article had.  Again, like Ray's awsome post, this is ok for the serious camper, but not so ideal for people like me and folk just heading into the country with 15kg bag limits.

 

I can see the benefits of a unified wifi network that just means you can surf from site to site.

 

I am also aware of how powerful telecoms can be for bringing revenue into the country off visitors.  I found it interesting that reference was made in the TV1 article to the 200 DOC sites that are off the grid.  I wonder if the article is in the TVNZ news archive?

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1474960 19-Jan-2016 22:15
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PolicyGuy:
roobarb:  Radio waves are line of sight and have a hard job getting through large amounts of rock, you should notice that it gets dark in the tunnels, light is also on the electromagnetic spectrum. Similarly radio waves won't reach all valleys, gulleys, reentrants and caves. There is no viable business case for providing mobile coverage in the Maymorn and Rimutuka tunnels, we don't even have electrification, the trains are hauled by diesel locomotives. ... These tunnels are not the underground in London. 
But KiwiRail have UHF/VHF coverage through the tunnels for train control, so while they're not the London Underground, a lot of the infrastructure must be in place. That very small piece of the problem probably is fixable without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per tunnel.  

 

 

 

So the technology exists, and aspects of whats required may already be in place.  I'd like to understand more about the cost to actually deliver this.  I wonder how I learn more about mobile technology pricing?

 

 





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  Reply # 1474964 19-Jan-2016 22:19
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raytaylor:
freitasm:

I always wanted something like FON I New Zealand. Or even like Telstra WiFi is doing in Australia. But damn those pesky copyright laws...
NOW in Napier have a great system. The router they provide to many of their customers in hawkes bay has a dual SSID. The guest SSID runs a vpn back to their network core where they have a hotspot controller. It is tunneled in such a way that the copyright laws are not a limitation. You can use your home broadband data on any of their guest hotspots around hawkes bay.   Also didnt Orcon try something similar a few years ago with a hotspot outfit whose name I cant remember right now?

 

 

 

Yes Ray, as you know, this isn't hard to do at all.  With EoIP and IPoE there is no reason at all that a tunnel can't be delivered to a router to ensure that the consumers IP isn't compromised by guests.

 

http://www.gowifi.co.nz/access-points-802.11/indoor-wireless-access-points/mikrotik-hap-lite-802.11n-router.html One of these just sorts out the problem in one go, and at the cost of less than the average house hold spends on having an outside light so guests can find their way to your door.

 

 





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  Reply # 1474967 19-Jan-2016 22:21
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roobarb: Radio waves are line of sight and have a hard job getting through large amounts of rock, you should notice that it gets dark in the tunnels, light is also on the electromagnetic spectrum.

 

 

 

...and yet both the major road tunnels in wellington aren't dark, I wonder why that is?





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  Reply # 1474980 19-Jan-2016 22:47
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They're a lot shorter than the rail tunnels.


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  Reply # 1475001 20-Jan-2016 01:54
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DonGould:

 

roobarb: Radio waves are line of sight and have a hard job getting through large amounts of rock, you should notice that it gets dark in the tunnels, light is also on the electromagnetic spectrum.

 

 

 

...and yet both the major road tunnels in wellington aren't dark, I wonder why that is?

 

 

 

 

I would imagine it would be quite expensive to get mobile signals through smaller tunnels and around tunnel corners. Couple that with being in an almost Faraday cage on rails, with multipath problems off any metallic ore in the rock and I guess it would make a good wireless technology testing bed for harsh environments.

 

 

 

edit: Off topic... these video ads are driving me nuts. Now there's two... one that covers the top corner and another down the left side covering the names of the poster. When I blow them up, this old machine struggles to open the full video view so I can close them. Only would a functional MRI based advertising technology annoy me more.


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