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  Reply # 1508461 8-Mar-2016 20:40
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what happens to your business when your residential connection goes down and your ISP/Chorus say its going to be 5 days to fix it? will you start a thread on here complaining about the time it takes to fix?

 

how valuable is your uptime to you?




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  Reply # 1508512 8-Mar-2016 22:04
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Jase2985:

 

what happens to your business when your residential connection goes down and your ISP/Chorus say its going to be 5 days to fix it? will you start a thread on here complaining about the time it takes to fix?

 

how valuable is your uptime to you?

 

 

I guess you missed the previous comments in my post. If our provider goes down we simply fail over to the cloud. We already do this. We have already **had** to do this on a number of occasions with our colocated boxes. Trying to lodge our servers in an ultra secure nuclear inter proof facility, is just a loosing proposition. You have to start paying ultra high money to make sure nothing every happens and then stuff still sometimes happens. Much much better to just spin up some other services elsewhere. We run raid 1 on our drives etc, but other than that don't have a working pair. We just fail over to the cloud instead. Simple. Maybe we are going to be bitten by this at some stage in the future. But the 3 times that our colocation went down it wouldn't have mattered how nuclear protected and good the service provider was if the connection failed upstream etc...

 

Thus in answer to you question: our uptime is very valuable, so we don't ever chance it by having a single provider point of failure.

 

I don't think others should trust to a single point of failure either. So given that and the fact these are experimental servers it would be nice to be able to be able to make use of our blisteringly fast speeds and have multiple IP's... Hence my question!




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  Reply # 1508532 8-Mar-2016 22:43
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sbiddle:

 

jasnz:

 

Personally, I would consider NZ$200 to NZ$300 for a connection unrealistic. Residential services are *already* very high compared to other places in the world.

 

 

$200 to $300 is on the low end for a business connection. I'm surprised you consider that unrealistic.

 

 

No. Again. I don't want a "business" connection. I don't need SLAs, guaranteed through puts, etc etc. All I wanted was the blazingly fast residential speeds we have now + multiple IP's. That was it. Just multiple IP's. That was my question. It might have been a completely insane / impossible request (but apparently 2 degrees might actually offer this for NZ$140 a month which was quoted above, I'll call and find out.) But that was my question.

 

sbiddle:

 

The fact NZ residential internet is already very high is something I strongly disagree with. NZ has some of the best internet in the world at amazingly good pricing. You can't have cheap pricing and good quality - countries such as the UK and Australia are proof of that. I visit the US a few times per year and every time I'm also amazed how terrible there internet is. Yes low end copper maybe more expensive, but the same can't be said for fibre.

 

Pricing for high speed connections  such as 200Mbps are cheaper in NZ that what you'll pay in the US, and the quality of our connections is arguably a lot better.

 

As for business use the US is a horrible place - try researching what business connections cost in the US and you'll suddenly realise even Bitstream3 UFB connections here represent a true bargain.

 

 

 

 

Ok. So we agree ADSL is much cheaper overseas. As for fibre I don't actually have much experience with fibre overseas at all, and in fact it is very new here. I have more experience in say cable in the US which was historically much faster and cheaper than it was here.

 

sbiddle:

 

At the end of the day your views clearly differ from mine - you want a business product offering but want to pay low cost residential pricing. Good luck finding a suitable provider.

 

 

No. I don't want a business product offering.  We have a residential fibre connection. I just wanted more than 1 IP. Everything else the provider does can go on being the same. Some torrenter will have a crud load more data throughput than we do. Some grandma is going to call the service department a crud load more than us. So residential connection + multiple IP's. Paying NZ$3000 a year for that would not be my idea of value or fun... We would likely hack around it and save ourselves the NZ$2000 which we could buy a new server with, etc etc. Of course other businesses may be really happy with that. Or indeed they might likely just host overseas (we can't due to ping times etc).

 

In any case I really didn't want this to become a discussion about price. Personally for us, as a business decision, if faced with those prices, I would just put in a couple more U in our colocation provider and save NZ$1000 a year, instead of paying for a "business" connection. Actually come to think of it, if residential costs NZ$1000 per year and business costs NZ$3000 per year. And if colocation costs NZ$500 per U. Then for the NZ$2000 extra one would pay for business you could run 4 U from a colocation facility. In fact with power usage at home vs them paying for it at the colo facility you could probably host 6U at the colocation facility for the same "extra" price for a "business" connection. How many people realistically do this? Those economics don't sound so good for the business connection... I mean for instance the core of stack overflow probably runs in around 11 - 20U... (http://nickcraver.com/blog/2013/11/22/what-it-takes-to-run-stack-overflow/) So I am not sure how many people run more than 6U from their homes?

 

Anyway. Pricing, aside... my question was can I get basically residential service + multiple IP's. Tomorrow, I'll check out the options people have pointed me to... 

 

Thanks,  Jas




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  Reply # 1509957 9-Mar-2016 15:40
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@Noodles, @Zeon, @jnimmo Thanks guys! You can indeed get what I was asking for, and at a quite reasonable price too!  I called 2 degrees broadband (formally snap):

 

I was quoted :

 

  • Static iPV4: /29 with 6 usable static ip addresses is NZ$20 a month extra.
  • Static IPV4: /30 with 2 usable static addresses is NZ$10 a month extra.
  • Static IPV6: /56 with **lots** of static addresses is NZ$10 a month extra.a 

I was quoted NZ$89 per month for unlimited UFB, possibly rising to NZ$95 per month for 1000Mbps down and 500 Mbps up in Dunedin.

 

So that is quite a nice price something like NZ$115 per month for a /29! (Or NZ$1380 a year)

 

I haven't yet checked out the other options... Or investigated residential snap stability / downtime, etc compared to residential spark stability / downtime, etc... but at least this is possible so I will start further investigation.

 

Thanks, Jas


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  Reply # 1509989 9-Mar-2016 16:32
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Also keep in mind where the server needs to be accessible from; often traffic between ISPs or sometimes even between customers on the same ISP is all handed off in Auckland. Traffic between the same ISP may be done at a POP (Point of presence) or national level, careful planning here could help improve service between two sites.

 

i.e. traffic from my home Bigpipe connection goes via Auckland to get to work (who use 2degrees). When I had 2degrees at home the traffic never left Christchurch.


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  Reply # 1510212 9-Mar-2016 23:01
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Only ever had one outage on snap / 2 deg that was their fault. Others were spade fade.





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  Reply # 1510214 9-Mar-2016 23:14
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WRT the iDRAC - I wouldn't recommend exposing something like that to the Internet directly.  I would instead have this accessible only behind a VPN.  You can get routers which include a VPN server.  Same goes for anything else you (and trusted others) might need to access remotely but the public does not.

 

Also you don't need multiple IPs to have a mail server and web server, it's just a case of forwarding the appropriate ports to each service.

 

Just a thought ;)




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  Reply # 1510228 9-Mar-2016 23:50
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ubergeeknz:

 

WRT the iDRAC - I wouldn't recommend exposing something like that to the Internet directly.  I would instead have this accessible only behind a VPN.  You can get routers which include a VPN server.  Same goes for anything else you (and trusted others) might need to access remotely but the public does not.

 

Also you don't need multiple IPs to have a mail server and web server, it's just a case of forwarding the appropriate ports to each service.

 

Just a thought ;)

 

 

Thanks for the comment! Very interesting! We do run a VPN on each of our colocated boxes but we had the idrac outside this since things can go wrong. Our setup is that on each 1U server (they are largely quite independent) one of the internal VM runs endian as our firewall. So we don't have a separate firewall box. When we scale to other data centers the idea is then we don't need to rent the extra rack space for the other firewall box. We *could* have another separate firewall box, like eg buy a Dell R210 for very little money (it might need a quad NIC card or something), and then run a firewall distro on that eg pfsense, endian, etc. But then to manage the firewall box we would then access the ... yep ... idrac on the firewall box! :)

 

I am not sure how one gets around this other than just keeping the boxes up to date. I guess we could ask our colocation provider to block access to the idrac accept from specific given ip-addresses? (Actually I should get this done...)

 

Which router (+VPN) did you have in mind?

 

Looking around at the certs for the iDRAC it didn't look like they had an unduly large number compared to comparable offerings. (But I am no security expert). It did look like they get patched not too long after the certs were issued (and we of course have secure passwords on them like eg sCPDf4yGZR1ragOroktX (but that is totally not the password :) ))

 

As far as web server, you are correct, nginx nicely reverse proxies stuff for you. As far as mail, although we don't actually run it locally it is possibly something we want to do. Some of the simpler mail things like mail-in-a-box, or maybe zimbra probably handle this. But if we can avoid becoming really adept at managing an email server I would rather spend my time in other things... (if I can)...

 

Thanks for the interesting comments!


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  Reply # 1510266 10-Mar-2016 07:57
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Aredwood: Only ever had one outage on snap / 2 deg that was their fault. Others were spade fade.

 

As much as I love the Snap brand (and know quite a few people there) there is no denying the number of significant outages they've had over the past 6 months or so would probably rank them about the lowest in terms of uptime across all the big ISP's. They've had a number of fairly significant outages.

 

 




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  Reply # 1510537 10-Mar-2016 13:15
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sbiddle:

 

Aredwood: Only ever had one outage on snap / 2 deg that was their fault. Others were spade fade.

 

As much as I love the Snap brand (and know quite a few people there) there is no denying the number of significant outages they've had over the past 6 months or so would probably rank them about the lowest in terms of uptime across all the big ISP's. They've had a number of fairly significant outages. 

 

 

@sbiddle, thanks for the info. What would be your ranking of the big ISP's? Who has had the least outages, best throughputs, etc?

 

Do you know of any page that lists these things? (c.f. in terms of VPS stats there are certain pages like: http://serverbear.com/benchmarks/vps which lists some rankings of VPS stats, unix bench, ping times, etc.) Do you any such pages which exist for NZ ISP's for throughput, up time, etc  etc. Barring that I guess then it is down to the recommendations of people such as yourself that obviously follow the industry in great detail... Thanks! Jason


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  Reply # 1510557 10-Mar-2016 13:42
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I understood you were talking about putting this behind a UFB connection, not in co-lo?  So you'd just choose a UFB compatible router which does what you need.


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  Reply # 1510592 10-Mar-2016 14:11
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sbiddle:

 

Aredwood: Only ever had one outage on snap / 2 deg that was their fault. Others were spade fade.

 

As much as I love the Snap brand (and know quite a few people there) there is no denying the number of significant outages they've had over the past 6 months or so would probably rank them about the lowest in terms of uptime across all the big ISP's. They've had a number of fairly significant outages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really? the only significant outage in the last year across the Snap/2degrees network were in the Christchurch areas one on Enable and one on Chorus, in areas like Dunedin they have 2+ years of full service (less of course any last mile connections out of their control to houses like spade fade) whereas the likes of Spark/Orcon have had outages in the Otago area which have lasted multiple hours, for a long time Spark had no redundancy on UFB in the South Island which caused whole town outages everytime a fibre was hit.

 

Looking at stats from the likes of http://bgplay.routeviews.org/ they have one of the most reliable networks (in terms of AS uptime) of all NZ carriers.

 

It's only realy Spark and 2degrees that have dual fibre POP's in Dunedin with full redudnancy in different buildings.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1510597 10-Mar-2016 14:16
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Curious why you need multiple IPs, care to share? If you want to hide the IP address(s) just put CloudFlare in front of it and don't leak your source IP. It's a WAF, but works a lot like a reverse proxy. Maybe you can get away without multiple IPs.





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  Reply # 1510604 10-Mar-2016 14:31
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In the recent survey from Truenet (who benchmark broadband speeds) I suggested they start looking at some metrics to monitor availability of services, hopefully they will do something there. I'd love a metric to look at single points of failure on a network too although this is probably too difficult.
(i.e. does everyone in the country go through the same aggregation router or are there regional aggregation points).

 

 




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  Reply # 1510643 10-Mar-2016 15:25
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ubergeeknz:

 

I understood you were talking about putting this behind a UFB connection, not in co-lo?  So you'd just choose a UFB compatible router which does what you need.

 

 

Yes... to clarify we have 2U in colo, and these "experimental" boxes would be for playing with at home. Ie we have a fast connection, it would be nice to experiment with them in the same way as we set up our boxes in colo. (If we have our failover correct, and service levels / bandwidth etc are high enough and downtime is low enough after measuring it for a while, we might even be able to migrate those 2U from colo, to here.) So basically this was for experimental things, etc.

 

So, I have to state I am not a networking guy. I can read a /etc/network/interfaces file and mostly understand it, etc. Maybe read some firehol rules etc, but setting up a lot of the bridging / nat configuration, iptables rules, etc is something I can sort of read at the moment but would have trouble creating from scratch. We have someone on the team who is a lot more knowledgable about these things than I. It is something however I would like to become much more proficient with!

 

So this will expose my ignorance here and I was just going to set up a router box and let our team member who is more knowledgeable about this go to work... (He is actually working remotely which makes it slightly tricky but not too bad...) However, if you were to recommend a "UFB compatible router" that could handle setting up a /29 or /56, etc. Which would be your candidates? (Currently using a HG659b) Do you have any guides you would point to as canonical for setting up said router... 


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