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  #1541748 25-Apr-2016 17:17
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MichaelNZ:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

What I am saying is running an ISP is a low-margin business so commission payouts are pretty minimal and there is no ISP that is right for 100% of customers. There are providers like Voyager, Spark, HD.net and Solarix that offer reseller agreements however what I and others in this thread doing a recommendation on an ISP based on the customers needs is better than recommending just one provider hence why it is a good idea to have multiple reseller agreements with different ISP's or a major ISP like Spark where you can offer it to them.

 

I can tell you now you won't get much more than $20 per connection, hence why the BigPipe one (if you used BigPipe at home or switched to them) was actually both a simple and good option.

 

 

That's what ISP's claim, but when one considers the sort of metrics customer lists are sold for, I am appropriately skeptical.

 

 

 

 

such as?

 

 If you are talking about when ISPs get purchased and people talk about how they are worth "$xxx per customer" (e.g. Snap, Orcon x 4 in the last few years, Whoosh, WxC) that's not really relevant at all.  For one thing, those customers are already up and running on the network. No other costs are required to get them started and they will start delivering margin immediately to the purchasing ISP.  They are a known quantity, many of the customers have been with that ISP for years and won't switch away.

 

Whereas if you are referring a new customer to an ISP, the ISP still has plenty of other costs to incur before they start making money off that customer - such as:

 

Chorus connection fees,

 

the cost of modem,

 

the offer to the customer to get them to sign up (e.g. first month free or something like $100 credit is not uncommon as an acquisiton offer).

 

Also the first week or two is when things are most likely to go wrong,  so add on some other costs for the extra support required for most people.

 

 

 

And since the customer is new, they could easily leave before the ISP even makes any money at all from them.

 

 

 

so maybe if you negotiated to remove some of those issues from the ISP's plate, they might be more willing to pay more for referral  (e.g. you could say that these customers don't need a special deal to sign up with, your recommendation is good enough, so the ISP can pay you the $100 instead of giving the customer $100 credit as a sign-up perk) 

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  #1541749 25-Apr-2016 17:18
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michaelmurfy:

 

Go start up an ISP and you'll see for yourself that margins are very very small. It is not viable for providers to offer such a payment in-fact BigPipe with their credit is the biggest one I've seen.

 

 

Been there, done that. Both as an employee and on my own.

 

Margins are lowish but not as low as ISP's world have the marketplace believe. One just has to consider the sorts of deals on offer to see this. Free connection, free CPE and often even 1-3 months free with 24m contract.

 

Furthermore I have never heard of an ISP asking less then $100 per client when selling out.

 

It's quite understandable they want to pay $20 but this doesn't mean that's the maximum they can pay.





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  #1541750 25-Apr-2016 17:19
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MichaelNZ:

 

$20 won't cut it. If that's all that's on offer I'd rather just let my clients make their own choices and/or pay me to help them. In other words I won't be able to offer a free or subsidised service for those wanting a basic connection.

 

 

Good luck finding anything better. Unless you're going to make people sign up to 2 year contracts on an average residential plan $20 can easily represent 2 months profit. I don't think you really comprehend how low margin the mass market ISP business is.

 

 

 

 




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  #1541752 25-Apr-2016 17:24
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sbiddle:

 

Good luck finding anything better. Unless you're going to make people sign up to 2 year contracts on an average residential plan $20 can easily represent 2 months profit. I don't think you really comprehend how low margin the mass market ISP business is.

 

 

At this stage all I wanted to know is anyone is aware of an ISP's offering good referral programs. I am aware there are a few ISP's who operate on a low price model and it's not them I am aiming at. In any case the discussion in this thread is outside of what I am seeking and I request this is closed please.

 

Thanks for the contributions everyone.





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  #1541775 25-Apr-2016 17:32
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MichaelNZ:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

Go start up an ISP and you'll see for yourself that margins are very very small. It is not viable for providers to offer such a payment in-fact BigPipe with their credit is the biggest one I've seen.

 

 

Been there, done that. Both as an employee and on my own.

 

Margins are lowish but not as low as ISP's world have the marketplace believe. One just has to consider the sorts of deals on offer to see this. Free connection, free CPE and often even 1-3 months free with 24m contract.

 

Furthermore I have never heard of an ISP asking less then $100 per client when selling out.

 

It's quite understandable they want to pay $20 but this doesn't mean that's the maximum they can pay.

 

 

 

 

if you can provide the ISP customers without them incurring those sorts of costs, then I'm sure they will be willing to talk.

 

Bear in mind the above offers of ~$20 assume that the new customer still qualifies for those kind of deals. So the ISP is giving you $20 AND the customer all of the above.  




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  #1541777 25-Apr-2016 17:40
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NonprayingMantis:

 

if you can provide the ISP customers without them incurring those sorts of costs, then I'm sure they will be willing to talk.

 

Bear in mind the above offers of ~$20 assume that the new customer still qualifies for those kind of deals. So the ISP is giving you $20 AND the customer all of the above.  

 

 

I will supply the equipment to the customer and manage the join process up to the point the customer is online. The finer details will be discussed when I have selected which company/companies I want to work with. Key in my mind will be quality of service - both access and customer service. They must be companies I can have confidence in





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  #1541778 25-Apr-2016 17:54
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MichaelNZ:

 

NonprayingMantis:

 

if you can provide the ISP customers without them incurring those sorts of costs, then I'm sure they will be willing to talk.

 

Bear in mind the above offers of ~$20 assume that the new customer still qualifies for those kind of deals. So the ISP is giving you $20 AND the customer all of the above.  

 

 

I will supply the equipment to the customer and manage the join process up to the point the customer is online. The finer details will be discussed when I have selected which company/companies I want to work with. Key in my mind will be quality of service - both access and customer service. They must be companies I can have confidence in

 

 

ah, now I see.  That's very different than just a simple referral programme - which is, what people in this thread thought you were asking about and why they told you ~$20 is about the right amount.

 

Probably your best bet is to figure out which ISP/ISPs you have confidence in and have the right products for you, and then approach them directly to see if a deal can be struck. Depending on how many customers you might end up bringing vs their size, you might get a pretty good deal or they might just give you a straight "no" without even discussing it. 


 
 
 
 


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  #1541779 25-Apr-2016 17:54
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MichaelNZ:

 

NonprayingMantis:

 

if you can provide the ISP customers without them incurring those sorts of costs, then I'm sure they will be willing to talk.

 

Bear in mind the above offers of ~$20 assume that the new customer still qualifies for those kind of deals. So the ISP is giving you $20 AND the customer all of the above.  

 

 

I will supply the equipment to the customer and manage the join process up to the point the customer is online. The finer details will be discussed when I have selected which company/companies I want to work with. Key in my mind will be quality of service - both access and customer service. They must be companies I can have confidence in

 

 

One assumes you will be assuming all support for the customers as well since you're not going to use the ISP supplied CPE since nobody will provide support for customers using hardware they haven't provided since they have no way to manage it.

 

 




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  #1541780 25-Apr-2016 17:57
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sbiddle:

 

One assumes you will be assuming all support for the customers as well since you're not going to use the ISP supplied CPE since nobody will provide support for customers using hardware they haven't provided since they have no way to manage it.

 

 

Point taken. I will add that to my list to make sure they support customer hardware.





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  #1541781 25-Apr-2016 18:02
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MichaelNZ:

 

They must be companies I can have confidence in

 

 

Many people around here have confidence in Spark and BigPipe of which you've shown to not have confidence in so again it is dependant on the customer. As you've stated I think letting the customer decide for themselves is a wise choice for you. Also, other providers can't support equipment you've installed unless if they've provided it.

 

Edit: Steve bet me to this...





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  #1541782 25-Apr-2016 18:05
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MichaelNZ:

 

sbiddle:

 

One assumes you will be assuming all support for the customers as well since you're not going to use the ISP supplied CPE since nobody will provide support for customers using hardware they haven't provided since they have no way to manage it.

 

 

Point taken. I will add that to my list to make sure they support customer hardware.

 

 

Good luck finding a single ISP who will provide free support beyond providing basic connection settings for any hardware supplied by a 3rd party, along with providing you a reasonable priced connection, and providing you commission.

 

As you're not really wanting to explain what you want one assumes you simply want to clip the ticket for new customers yet not support them. This isn't a normal way of doing business.

 

 

 

 




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  #1541783 25-Apr-2016 18:10
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I started with a simple question and I don't think this thread is going anywhere towards what I am after. It's clearly something which is better discussed one on one with potentials.

 

Please close the thread, thanks.





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  #1541795 25-Apr-2016 18:53
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MichaelNZ:

 

I started with a simple question and I don't think this thread is going anywhere towards what I am after. It's clearly something which is better discussed one on one with potentials.

 

Please close the thread, thanks.

 

 

Went in the same direction as all your other threads... No surprise to be honest.







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  #1541803 25-Apr-2016 18:58
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michaelmurfy:

 

Went in the same direction as all your other threads... No surprise to be honest.

 

 

Earlier in the thread you were trying to sell me something which I didn't want. Now it sounds like sour grapes.

 

If you don't like the thread don't post. Simple.

 

Edit: Just had a look and your advice is not without bias.





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  #1541804 25-Apr-2016 19:09
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MichaelNZ:

 

sbiddle:

 

One assumes you will be assuming all support for the customers as well since you're not going to use the ISP supplied CPE since nobody will provide support for customers using hardware they haven't provided since they have no way to manage it.

 

 

Point taken. I will add that to my list to make sure they support customer hardware.

 

 

 

 

supporting (or not supporting) customer hardware could be done in a few ways.  I think what you are after is number 3:

 

 

 

1) only allow the ISP provided hardware on their connection - anything else is a complete no-go. If you try and use other gear, it simply won't work.  I don't think any ISPs in NZ are like this.  (possibly Orcon, not sure)

 

 

 

2) Allow customers to use 3rd party hardware, but refuse to help customers who aren't using the ISP provided CPE, even when the issue is unlikely to be the CPE  (fits the biggest ISPs in NZ I would say - Voda, Spark, Slingshot)

 

 

 

3) allow customers to use 3rd party CPE,  and still support customers who are using it, albeit without providing help with more advanced settings beyond providing simple connection settings (e.g. they probably won't provide help on how to setup QoS on a router they didn't provide) 

 

(A few ISPs in NZ like this I would say.  Most likely candidates:  Snap, Bigpipe, Flip)

 

 

 

4) provide total support for any and all customer CPE, even super complex bits of kit that only a few people in the world own.   (there are no ISPs in NZ who would do this AFAIK, because there are simply too many different parts and combinations of parts to have that much knowledge)

 

 


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