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244 posts

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  Reply # 1586929 6-Jul-2016 09:14
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I live down a right of way and as sad as it will sound I simply don't have fibre because I have no confidence in the ability of Chorus (or whomever else) to get it to my property ...


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  Reply # 1586937 6-Jul-2016 09:27
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My install was great, Wellington a year or so ago. All services are overhead (other than water and sewage, which would be funny). They put ducting down the side of the house to a tidy grey box, it then runs under the house, up through a wall, across the ceiling, and down into a cupboard, exactly like I asked. It's in tidy ducting all the way, the guys who did it were friendly and helpful. This was probably before they were really busy.





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  Reply # 1586948 6-Jul-2016 09:47
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It's true that the old HFC install weren't always that flash. Mine for instance just has the cables loosely slung under the house, sitting directly on the dirt.  Quite a few of the ones I've seen seem to be on par with the sort of practices used for Sky installs. 

 

The UFB installs I've seen actually seem to be one notch above that. That's just my anecdotal experience, and there are no doubt a fair few shoddy installs. I'm happy with the quality of my own UFB install, but then again I put in place conduit for the installers to use.

 

 


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  Reply # 1586954 6-Jul-2016 09:51
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This topic was discussed in depth on Nine to Noon this morning:

 

The podcast is available here

 

09:05 - 09:30 Chorus responds to shoddy installation claims

"Exposed and unsightly cables on his East Auckland property have caused Joe Thornley to complain to Chorus about shoddy installation of ultra fast broadband. Chorus Chief Executive Mark Ratcliffe responds to claims that pressured subcontractors may have gone for the quickest installation option. Chorus, is one of four companies contracted by Crown Fibre Holdings to roll out the fibre network. The roll out is due to be completed by 2019."

 

Ratcliffe admitted that the work cited in the Herald article was "done to a very poor standard".

 

The dodgy subcontractors were doing 4 installs per day - "the highest in the country"

 

Topics discussed included:

 

  • fenceline wiring
  • 40cm minimum cable burial depth
  • best practice
  • replacing like with like (underground with underground, above-ground with above-ground)
  • fixed price installs
  • 600 installs per day
  • 700 audits per month
  • 50 "escalations" (complaints) per month
  • install funding from 2017 onward is being negotiated at present

 





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  Reply # 1586962 6-Jul-2016 10:07
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DarthKermit:

 

littleheaven:

 

When they installed at my sister's place they did a great job. Blew the fibre up the underground pipe that carried her copper. She's one house back from the street but it was all done without fuss, no exposed cables anywhere. If my services are all already underground can I expect them to do the same at my place?

 

 

The subbie will attempt to use an existing telecommunications conduit where possible.

 

BTW, when is your street scheduled to get UFB?

 

 

We're scheduled to be live by February, so I'd expect to see some street-digging occurring in the next few months (hopefully).

 

I have a similar setup to @andrew027 - my copper comes out of the ground beside one of the poles that supports the front of the house (we have an open-air carport situation beneath the living room) and that's where the ETP is. That's on the right of the house, whereas my modem is situated on top of a tall bookcase roughly in the centre of the house. In this case, the cable runs from the ETP up the support pole, across the carport ceiling (which is the underside of the living room floor) and up through the floor just in the right spot to run up the back of the bookcase to the modem. My hope is that the fibre install will follow the same route, with the ONT going lower down on the wall beside the bookcase. That's just beside a power outlet that is on my SunGenie critical load circuit, meaning in a power cut the house battery continues to power it. It would be really easy because the only drilling required is one small hole in the floor, and then poke the insulation back into place. Alternatively, if they went straight up through the floor from the ETP they'd end up behind the TV, which is still not a disaster but might make the WiFi signal a bit less effective throughout the house.





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Currently using: Modified 2008 Mac Pro, HP M6-1017TX Laptop, iPad Pro, iPhone 7, iPhone 6S, AppleTV4.


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  Reply # 1586980 6-Jul-2016 10:27
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I wonder if any blame can be laid on the slashing of install prices? I'd need to hunt down the figures unless somebody has them handy but aren't most installs now capped at something like $1400? Clearly there were many complex SDU installs in the early days that cost big $$$ (I'm aware of some estimates of $10k + for jobs). If excavating or concrete reinstatement is done then it's going to cost big $$$

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1587020 6-Jul-2016 11:11
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Chorus (and others) put in tenders at a certain price to win them.  Now they come to do the work, they find it costs more than they assumed in many properties.

 

Part of cost cutting is using techniques which are technically acceptable but aesthetically awful.  They devalue people's properties and/or reduce their enjoyment.  But that simply isn't Chorus's problem.

 

Our on wall/ceiling fibre runs were inside our garage and a couple of cupboards.  We forget they are there.  But we, wouldn't have allowed surface runs in any other room in the house.  We would have stuck with copper to avoid them.





Mike

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1587042 6-Jul-2016 11:49
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Not to be negative, but who researched how much an average install would cost, was the budget allocated far too small. Sorry but installing along a fence is not good enough in the average customer’s eyes, as it just does not promote confidence.

 

It’s not like the majority of New Zealander’s demanded UFB, if they are going to have no choice but to use fibre in 10+ years, why should they pay for it (outside of taxation) and furthermore they are been forced to accept the poor workmanship that is currently happening.

 

Guess what I’m saying is, do it once do it right, who is going to cover the cost of a broken fibre run along a fence in the future, or who will cover the cost of relocating the fibre run if the fence is removed, changed or repaired? Can this be supplied in writing from CFH?


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  Reply # 1587045 6-Jul-2016 12:00
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johny99:

 

<snip>

 

Guess what I’m saying is, do it once do it right, who is going to cover the cost of a broken fibre run along a fence in the future, or who will cover the cost of relocating the fibre run if the fence is removed, changed or repaired? ...

 

 

Chorus Chief Executive Mark Ratcliffe said much the same thing in a radio interview this morning (see my last post, above).

 

Fenceline wiring was discussed in some detail. Listen to the podcast.





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  Reply # 1587047 6-Jul-2016 12:11
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There wasn't anything too majorly wrong with our install.

 

We live down a shared driveway, so they trenched along the side of the driveway down the garden hard up against the concrete for the driveway, at the top of the drive it was micro trenched across the drive to our side.

 

The cable was then tacked along the bottom of the fence and hidden quite well until they get to a path, which they micro trenched across that again. Once they had finished I was told I could bury the cable if I wanted to, as long as it ran along the fence line, I haven't done that as I am planning to build up the garden there so the cable will end up lying under that.

 

The worst part is the location of the ETP, which was near a gate which used to be opened only one way. But the contractors build a ridge against the house where the corner of the gate meets the house to turn it into a one way gate.

 

The ONT was installed right where we wanted it with the cables running through the walls internally.


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  Reply # 1587051 6-Jul-2016 12:28
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Could a lack of competition be part of the problem?

 

It would seem I have no choice but to use Chorus, even though there are at least 2 other companies in my town capable of doing the work, maybe more competently.

 

I cant even choose another company even if I am prepared to pay for one?





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  Reply # 1587093 6-Jul-2016 13:21
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sbiddle:

 

I wonder if any blame can be laid on the slashing of install prices? I'd need to hunt down the figures unless somebody has them handy but aren't most installs now capped at something like $1400? Clearly there were many complex SDU installs in the early days that cost big $$$ (I'm aware of some estimates of $10k + for jobs). If excavating or concrete reinstatement is done then it's going to cost big $$$

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My install was a 10m excavation and a 2m concrete cut, seemed to take them a few days so would've cost a bit.  At the same time there is an existing copper telephone conduit that comes up under the house, but the scoping person never even investigated that as an option. 

 

Was a tidy install in the end though, but would've been needlessly expensive.  Would be good if they could send out consent form to neighbouring driveways, even not part of the ROW, to get cheaper tidier installs that can cover more people in one go.


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  Reply # 1587164 6-Jul-2016 14:55
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I think it all comes down to who owns and is responsible for maintaining the fibre from the road into your house. If it is the provider, then it is fine if they are doing installs on the cheap, because they can come back and fix them if there are problems later on at their cost. But if it is the homeowner, then they want to make sure that it is intalled correctly and is durable, and they won't need to get someone in for teh life of the cable install. Fences being blown over can happen as they get older, so repairing a fibre cable that is snapped if this happens I imagine could be a costly exercise. Same if a digger digs up a shallow cable with no cable warning strip. I have cut through an underground phone cable before that had no warning strip. and it wasn't a cheap exercise to have to spliced back and repaired.  It is a little like the Christchurch Earthquake where they had to do cheap quick repairs to get people back into their house, but they are now redoing many because they weren't done well enough to last. The same thing appears to be happening with UFB installs where they have a huge number they need to do, and they need to do them quickly. There is already 6 week-2 months wait on installs in my area. SO I can see why it is happening, but consumers don't want to be paying twice. Am going to be watching my UFB install with interest. 


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  Reply # 1587180 6-Jul-2016 15:35
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@mattwnz: I think it all comes down to who owns and is responsible for maintaining the fibre from the road into your house. If it is the provider, then it is fine if they are doing installs on the cheap, because they can come back and fix them if there are problems later on at their cost. 

 

I don't know if clarifying ownership makes much difference.

 

If my wife takes as much notice of a surface-laid fibre cable as she does with the in-ground watering system I installed, then there will be an argument about who pays to fix it; the technician who thought sitting a cable on top of a flower bed was OK or the lady who stuck a spade through it. Even if I win that argument I'm still offline for however long it takes, plus time for the job to be prioritised, allocated, scheduled and done, considering how busy they are already.

 

Shouldn't there be the same kind of care taken with connecting a house to a fibre network as connecting the same house to the power grid? And if you say "No, because if you run the lawnmower over a power cable it will kill you, but a fibre line won't", try living in a house with two teenagers and no internet for a week. Someone. Will. Die.


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  Reply # 1587182 6-Jul-2016 15:38
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kiwifidget:

 

Could a lack of competition be part of the problem?

 

It would seem I have no choice but to use Chorus, even though there are at least 2 other companies in my town capable of doing the work, maybe more competently.

 

I cant even choose another company even if I am prepared to pay for one?

 

 

Chorus don't do the install so that argument is kinda moot IMHO. The work is contracted out, and depending on what civil and install work is required can easily involve anywhere from 2+ subcontractors.

 

 


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