Changes to DLM Incoming

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'That VDSL Cat'
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# 1781975 14-May-2017 16:19

on a lighter notes for @freakngeek

had techs out to repair my VDSL line today, halfway through my moved ETP build.

Managed to capture a sync at the roadside piller, 6x speed increase where it counts..

This was a lucky side-effect of knowing my target.

The awkward thing about working with this is, roadside was 8b my house is 17a.. I'm looking forward to the fact that there is a 24 hour test running to see what the bitloading was like.

on the side of ddDLM on both my VDSL and ADSL line i'm seeing per line movements now, just as ddDLM was intended to do.

Looking great to see that moving around, ofcourse it feaks out when a fault occurs but hey, ddDLM shouldn't mask a fault anyway..

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hio77

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# 1782726 15-May-2017 18:58

Anyone here noticing movement on VDSL lines down to 6dB?

Wondering if its a little early to be questioning if it is happening, however noticing a lack of movement currently.

Given i have had faults on my line so the variance is mainly caused by that.

however noting lines seem to be still stuck to the 12dB, 9dB patterns from before ddDLM on VDSL

ADSL however following the 12dB, 9dB, 6dB trends.

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lokeynz

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# 1782774 15-May-2017 20:44

I've had a line move from ~47/8 on 8B to the below - is 5dB SNR a roundabout 6dB profile?

hio77

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# 1782786 15-May-2017 20:50

lokeynz:

I've had a line move from ~47/8 on 8B to the below - is 5dB SNR a roundabout 6dB profile?

bingo there is the confirmation i was after

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datahawk

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# 1784065 18-May-2017 10:54

hio77:

gobtob:

Is some form of interleaving mandatory now? I was rather enjoying the sub 5ms pings.

not at all, it is dynamic.

the dynamic latency bit just is taking a little to kick in it would seem.

No action by DLM so far since my VDSL interleave appeared more than 10-12 days ago.

Currently have a very good 8B, 62760/10356 Kbps sync on a 10dB attenuation line and 12dB SNR (up & down) but stuck with a 15ms ping.

We have historically always had no more than 5ms ping and no interleave.

I was also hoping these changes would 'pop' us back onto 17a but it's all very quiet.

Anyone seeing DLM movements recently?

hio77

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# 1784068 18-May-2017 11:00

datahawk:

hio77:

gobtob:

Is some form of interleaving mandatory now? I was rather enjoying the sub 5ms pings.

not at all, it is dynamic.

the dynamic latency bit just is taking a little to kick in it would seem.

No action by DLM so far since my VDSL interleave appeared more than 10-12 days ago.

Currently have a very good 8B, 62760/10356 Kbps sync on a 10dB attenuation line and 12dB SNR (up & down) but stuck with a 15ms ping.

We have historically always had no more than 5ms ping and no interleave.

I was also hoping these changes would 'pop' us back onto 17a but it's all very quiet.

Anyone seeing DLM movements recently?

interesting that your line is not currently rocking 17a.

My personal VDSL line, a solid 28dB Atteuation is rocking 17a like no tomorrow.

I'm awaiting it switching up to 8b for the increased downstream power.

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Benoire

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# 1784071 18-May-2017 11:02

Nothing has changed on my line since it resynced. Lost downstream speed and nothing has changed on upstream.

datahawk

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# 1784085 18-May-2017 11:23

hio77:

interesting that your line is not currently rocking 17a.

My personal VDSL line, a solid 28dB Atteuation is rocking 17a like no tomorrow.

I'm awaiting it switching up to 8b for the increased downstream power.

Exactly my thoughts! - I've been on 17A twice before and I can see no reason why it has not jumped back there with the current line specs?.

(I lost 17A twice when port resets were required last year due to a couple of unknown connection problems)

I closely monitor my VDSL and it's never shown a single line error. Attenuation has always been 10dB with a pretty good SNR. Virtually no loss in speed tests at any time of the day or night.

I see from some other posts here, lines with much 'lower' parameters running on 17A and I'm wondering why ours is not actively moving?

My location is a little unusual. It's close to a whisper cabinet at the end of a fibre line in a rural area so we have excellent service with (I am guessing) low cross talk due to spaced out lifestyle blocks mostly.

hio77

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# 1784088 18-May-2017 11:33

Mysteries of VDSL.

All i know is forcing the modes is possible.

Turns out messing with it on my side caused a connector to come loose in the CT and on the DSLAM module - As reported by the techs.

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datahawk

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# 1784090 18-May-2017 11:38

hio77:

Mysteries of VDSL.

Yep. As a programmer, I would love see the code and rules associated with DLM.

I find this subject very interesting but waiting for ' DLM Santa' to visit your modem does drive me a bit crazy :-)

hio77

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# 1784091 18-May-2017 11:41

datahawk:

hio77:

Mysteries of VDSL.

Yep. As a programmer, I would love see the code and rules associated with DLM.

I find this subject very interesting but waiting for ' DLM Santa' to visit your modem does drive me a bit crazy :-)

There is an amazing 300+ page book about it...

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freakngeek

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# 1785033 20-May-2017 11:07

Nothing to do with forcing modes but tweaking the DV130 'VDSL SNR' setting can force a lower downstream snr and corresponding higher sync rate
Upload isn't affected

Piccy below at very top is the Telnet command to use to lower the SNR by 5db (max allowed) it took my mine from 9db to 4db
Value range is from -50.0 to 50.0 = -5.0db to +5.0db this gets added to your default sync SNR

Below that the VDSL status report, with Downstream sync nicely increased from about 44Mbps to 52Mbps

Does make me think, as downstream is capable of lower snr, is the actual snr decided by upstream sync and CRC error rate.

hio77

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# 1785129 20-May-2017 13:16

Did not know you could snr tweak on the dv130.

careful with tweaking down with ddDLM.

a line can be alot more stable with a lower snr on upstream than downstream.

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freakngeek

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# 1785130 20-May-2017 13:30

Draytek SNR change guide

Got the info from there.

CRC on 4db SNR downstream is going up slowly, but no worse than it was with SNR at 9db looking at pics I took a few pages ago.
Upstream connection maxes out with tweak setting at -0.5db (8db actual) for me, giving a very small connection speed increase.
I'll leave SNR at 4db and see what happens, so far after a few hours and trialling some big downloads all is well.

datahawk

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# 1785169 20-May-2017 15:25

freakngeek:

Draytek SNR change guide

Got the info from there.

That's some useful information that I was also not aware of.

My DV130 firmware version indicates it has the vectoring in it but I'm not brave enough to try it out yet.

I'm also still really puzzled why we are stuck on 8B when your line is 17A with 26dB attenuation like several other users here.

My specs seem good enough for 17A but DLM is just not seem to be active. I'm also interested in why we have interleave with 0 depth that has also not moved since the ddDLM changes...

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 8B                         State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 62760000 bps        US Actual Rate : 10356000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 62795504 bps   US Attainable Rate : 10487000 bps
DS Path Mode : Interleave              US Path Mode : Interleave
DS Interleave Depth : 0                US Interleave Depth : 0
NE Current Attenuation : 10 dB        Cur SNR Margin : 12 dB
DS actual PSD : -12.-4 dB              US actual PSD : 17. 1 dB
NE CRC Count : 0                        FE CRC Count : 0
NE ES Count : 0                          FE ES Count : 0
Xdsl Reset Times : 0                      Xdsl Link Times : 1
ITU Version[0] : b5004946              ITU Version[1] : 544e0000

VDSL Firmware Version : 05-04-08-00-00-06
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 0 dB Far SNR Margin : 12 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da3f5
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >

Once again, we certainly can't complain about the speeds we are getting but I'd still love to see what it would be like on the 17A profile.

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