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316 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1785175 20-May-2017 15:37
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Datahawk you are running on 12db SNR which I'm thinking is why you are on 8b
When I increase the SNR db I too go to 8b
You could try lowering the SNR by 3db and you may see 17b profile 
I'm running 9db by default and have 17a, I am rural but happen to not be too far from cabinet

 

SNR Tweak doesn't stay, reboot or restart connection and it goes back to default SNR connection, or set SNR DB offset to zero




'That VDSL Cat'
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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1785176 20-May-2017 15:38
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snr does not dictate profile.

 

 

 

most broadcom modems to save a tweak requires an adsl profile save

 

 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 


196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785179 20-May-2017 15:46
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freakngeek:

 

Datahawk you are running on 12db SNR which I'm thinking is why you are on 8b
When I increase the SNR db I too go to 8b
You could try lowering the SNR by 3db and you may see 17b profile 
I'm running 9db by default and have 17a, I am rural but happen to not be too far from cabinet

 

SNR Tweak doesn't stay, reboot or restart connection and it goes back to default SNR connection, or set SNR DB offset to zero

 

 

Wow that is even more interesting. I've always thought that a low SNR was 'bad'...

 

From the web - which is never wrong as we all know :)

 

6dB or below SNR is bad, you will experience no sync, or intermittent sync problems
7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variation in conditions
11dB-20dB is good with little or no sync problems (if no large variation)
20dB-28dB is excellent
29dB or above is outstanding

 

So is this ^ actually wrong in regard to DSL?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1785180 20-May-2017 15:50
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That is talking about the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) as an indicator of connection strength not the Noise Margin (sometimes known as SNR margin but don't confuse this with the SNR itself)

316 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 78


  Reply # 1785181 20-May-2017 15:54
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hio77:

 

snr does not dictate profile.

 

Thats odd, i added 3db to SNR and goto 8b

 


316 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1785193 20-May-2017 16:24
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SNR tweaking only seems to affect Downstream syncing, as per below, 8b profile with 12db SNR, upstream still on 8db (even though other page reports 12db)

With higher SNR there are no CRC errors at all, even 9db (default) has errors

 

Also looking at above by tweaking the SNR up 3db the attenuation has come down 3db (26db on 17a/9db)


196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785194 20-May-2017 16:33
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I'm even more confused about 'good' VDSL SNR values now smile

 

I have worked out that the firmware on my DV130 is 5 years old and probably does not have the vectoring additions. I'll chase down and update the firmware next week to see if that makes any difference.

 

If I get cocky, I'll try your method with the SNR to see if it changes the profile.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1785200 20-May-2017 16:44
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DV130 Firmware

 

I use Modem 8 as my Firmware as it has the latest Modem driver + vectoring


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785233 20-May-2017 17:25
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datahawk:

 

I'm even more confused about 'good' VDSL SNR values now smile

 

I have worked out that the firmware on my DV130 is 5 years old and probably does not have the vectoring additions. I'll chase down and update the firmware next week to see if that makes any difference.

 

If I get cocky, I'll try your method with the SNR to see if it changes the profile.

 

 

 

 

Don't believe VDSL Vectoring is enabled in NZ. Capabilities is probably in the hardware but vectoring  is not compatible to LLU (local loop unbundling) currently which is ashame.


196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785288 20-May-2017 18:41
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freakngeek:

 

Datahawk you are running on 12db SNR which I'm thinking is why you are on 8b
When I increase the SNR db I too go to 8b
You could try lowering the SNR by 3db and you may see 17b profile 
I'm running 9db by default and have 17a, I am rural but happen to not be too far from cabinet

 

SNR Tweak doesn't stay, reboot or restart connection and it goes back to default SNR connection, or set SNR DB offset to zero

 

 

Turns out my current firmware has the 'adsl snr' command on board so I sucked it up and entered 'adsl snr -50.0'

 

Modem reported snr changed and restarted automatically. Result: No change to SNR - still 12dB and 8B but it reconnected at 63332/11024 (up 1 Mbps both up and down) which is the highest 8B rate I've ever had and probably just coincidental.

 

I'm unsure why my line is up at a 12dB margin. I'm rural also somewhere about 300-400M copper from cabinet but the last 180 meters is up my driveway and both copper and power are in the same trench. I'm now wondering if there is a lot of EMF creating noise.

 

All very interesting.


316 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1785290 20-May-2017 18:54
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I hope you used 'vdsl snr -50.0' not adsl :)

 

I'm about 850m from cabinet and 400m of that is driveway

 

VDSL seems to have no certain logic, probably other factors with other users, or interference


196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785302 20-May-2017 19:18
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freakngeek:

 

I hope you used 'vdsl snr -50.0' not adsl :)

 

I'm about 850m from cabinet and 400m of that is driveway

 

VDSL seems to have no certain logic, probably other factors with other users, or interference

 

 

Ha! - Not sure, so I just did it again with 'vdsl snr -50.0'

 

No change and I suspect it's old firmware related. It accepts 'vdsl snr' command but reports 'ADSL SNR changed...'

 

I'll do the firmware in the next day or so and try again.


196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785322 20-May-2017 20:29
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datahawk: 

 

I'll do the firmware in the next day or so and try again.

 

 

Nope - I just could not leave it alone so it's done.

 

Thanks @freakngeek for the firmware link and choices. I have some surprising results after the DV130 restart.... 
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :       8B       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 73002000 bps     US Actual Rate       : 10310000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 73001736 bps    US Attainable Rate   : 10295000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :  Interleave        US Path Mode         :        Fast 
   DS Interleave Depth     :      251            US Interleave Depth  :       16 
   NE Current Attenuation  :        9 dB        Cur SNR Margin       :        7  dB
   DS actual PSD           :   -12.-6 dB         US actual PSD        :    16. 3  dB
   NE CRC Count            :        0               FE CRC Count         :     1742
   NE ES Count             :        0                FE  ES Count         :     1540
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0               Xdsl Link  Times     :        1
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946            ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-09-0F-01-07   [with Vectoring support] 
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0 
   Test Mode               : DISABLE 
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :        8 dB      Far SNR Margin       :       11  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 434da3f5
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >

 


Mode:8B                State:SHOWTIME   TX Block:0     RX Block:0    
Corrected Blocks:1742  Uncorrected Blocks:0    
UP Speed:10310000   Down Speed:73002000   SNR Margin:7   Loop Att.:9      

 

A lot has changed with the new firmware install....

 

Still 8B but now 73002/10310 sync (10 Mbps increase in down speed!) - Speed test 67.57 down and 10.10 up.

 

Attenuation down 1dB.

 

SNR now reporting 7 and 11 instead of both 12dB.

 

Seeing more CRC errors and other stats.

 

Still have interleave but now showing only on NE and now also states the depth.

 

It appears that my old firmware really needed updating.

 

Because so much has changed, and the SNR has lowered, I'm not going to try the magic 'vdsl snr' adjustment yet because it will probably destroy my nice 70Mbps sync.

 

I'll let it run like this for a while and see if ddDLM will now look at 17A bump automatically.

 

(Edit: Formatting)


208 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 17


  Reply # 1785345 20-May-2017 22:58
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datahawk:

 

datahawk: 

 

I'll do the firmware in the next day or so and try again.

 

 

Nope - I just could not leave it alone so it's done.

 

Thanks @freakngeek for the firmware link and choices. I have some surprising results after the DV130 restart.... 
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :       8B       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 73002000 bps     US Actual Rate       : 10310000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 73001736 bps    US Attainable Rate   : 10295000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :  Interleave        US Path Mode         :        Fast 
   DS Interleave Depth     :      251            US Interleave Depth  :       16 
   NE Current Attenuation  :        9 dB        Cur SNR Margin       :        7  dB
   DS actual PSD           :   -12.-6 dB         US actual PSD        :    16. 3  dB
   NE CRC Count            :        0               FE CRC Count         :     1742
   NE ES Count             :        0                FE  ES Count         :     1540
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0               Xdsl Link  Times     :        1
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946            ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-09-0F-01-07   [with Vectoring support] 
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0 
   Test Mode               : DISABLE 
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :        8 dB      Far SNR Margin       :       11  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 434da3f5
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >

 


Mode:8B                State:SHOWTIME   TX Block:0     RX Block:0    
Corrected Blocks:1742  Uncorrected Blocks:0    
UP Speed:10310000   Down Speed:73002000   SNR Margin:7   Loop Att.:9      

 

A lot has changed with the new firmware install....

 

Still 8B but now 73002/10310 sync (10 Mbps increase in down speed!) - Speed test 67.57 down and 10.10 up.

 

Attenuation down 1dB.

 

SNR now reporting 7 and 11 instead of both 12dB.

 

Seeing more CRC errors and other stats.

 

Still have interleave but now showing only on NE and now also states the depth.

 

It appears that my old firmware really needed updating.

 

Because so much has changed, and the SNR has lowered, I'm not going to try the magic 'vdsl snr' adjustment yet because it will probably destroy my nice 70Mbps sync.

 

I'll let it run like this for a while and see if ddDLM will now look at 17A bump automatically.

 

(Edit: Formatting)

 

 

 

 

just wondering whats your previous firmware? and now your new firmware?


196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1785403 21-May-2017 09:44
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pinkydot: 

 

just wondering whats your previous firmware? and now your new firmware?

 

 

My Previous firmware was 3.7.8.1 - The Draytek distributor (snappernet) emailed me a download link for that version. It was a preset firmware with the best settings for Chorus/Spark bridge configuration. This was installed Nov-2015

 

Latest firmware 3.8.1.1_m8 was sourced from the ftp download link supplied by freakngeek (above) - I used the latest v3.8.1.1 list and installed the .all file from 'Vigor130_v3.8.1.1_modem_8.zip'

 

By the way - My previous firmware version never displayed any error values. Since 2030 hours last night, statistics on the new firmware have increased by NE CRC +18, FE CRC +2, NE ES Count +5 and FE ES Count +2

 

Edit: Just checked if the 'vdsl snr ?' command from the console. It returns....

 

> vdsl snr ?

 

Usage:
vdsl snr [delta]
delta: SNR margin delta. The SNR margin delta should range from -50 to 50.
delta=1 means 0.1dB.
Current VDSL SNR Margin is 7 dB.
Current VDSL SNR Margin delta setting is -50.

 

This is showing that SNR Margin has been lowered to -50 (down -5dB) - It appears that attempts to use this command on the old firmware (which failed) have stored the setting prior to the firmware update. I used the .all file to update the DV130 to keep existing settings and the new firmware accepted the new SNR setting during the post firmware restart.

 

This probably explains the jump in sync speed from 63Mbps up to 73Mbps. It is stable so I'll leave it alone in the mean time.


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