Changes to DLM Incoming

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'That VDSL Cat'
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Reply # 1866336 14-Sep-2017 16:10

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https://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/upgrading-vdsl-vectoring

More changes defined!

Obviously early days however.... G.INP aswell as vectoring!

G.INP will essentially be an alternative to interleaving.

Vectoring will increase speed + improve error rates.

I'll be closely watching!

I've seen a few hints of this popping up around the place on live connections so it is great to see it all confirmed.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Djmixerdomo

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Reply # 1866349 14-Sep-2017 16:31

I've just been watching my line stats for the past few minutes and have been seeing some really weird behaviour.

Every time the modem updates the stats (every 20s) my downstream SNR flip-flops between 6.1 and 8.3dB, with the attainable speed changing appropriately.

PC: i7 6700k 4.8Ghz/32GB DDR4/GTX1070

Server: Dual L5640/36GB DDR3/GTX1060

HTPC: R5 2400G/16GB DDR4

hio77

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Reply # 1866382 14-Sep-2017 17:13

Djmixerdomo:

I've just been watching my line stats for the past few minutes and have been seeing some really weird behaviour.

Every time the modem updates the stats (every 20s) my downstream SNR flip-flops between 6.1 and 8.3dB, with the attainable speed changing appropriately.

This sounds like possible RFI or the likes.

Get a LQD ran if it is affecting your line.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

AidanP

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Reply # 1880322 10-Oct-2017 12:50

This morning our vdsl speeds went from 69mbps down and 22mbps up to 85 down and 32up and i have confirmed that our linecard has been changed to a broadcomm.

It started at 8am and finished at 8.30am

hio77

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Reply # 1880339 10-Oct-2017 13:35

AidanP:

This morning our vdsl speeds went from 69mbps down and 22mbps up to 85 down and 32up and i have confirmed that our linecard has been changed to a broadcomm.

It started at 8am and finished at 8.30am

Happen to know your Cabinet ID? eg - WAK/C

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

AidanP

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Reply # 1880342 10-Oct-2017 13:40

hio77:

AidanP:

This morning our vdsl speeds went from 69mbps down and 22mbps up to 85 down and 32up and i have confirmed that our linecard has been changed to a broadcomm.

It started at 8am and finished at 8.30am

Happen to know your Cabinet ID? eg - WAK/C

TAW/AC

hio77

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Reply # 1880391 10-Oct-2017 15:01

AidanP:

TAW/AC

Yep, planned work today to change out linecards.

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timmay556

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Reply # 1881927 11-Oct-2017 12:56

hio77:
https://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/upgrading-vdsl-vectoring

More changes defined!

Obviously early days however.... G.INP aswell as vectoring!

G.INP will essentially be an alternative to interleaving.

Vectoring will increase speed + improve error rates.

I'll be closely watching!

I've seen a few hints of this popping up around the place on live connections so it is great to see it all confirmed.

Hi Hio, for someone like me 1.9km from the exchange will this make any difference?
Thanks

hio77

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Reply # 1881936 11-Oct-2017 13:02

timmay556:
Hi Hio, for someone like me 1.9km from the exchange will this make any difference?
Thanks

I'm further and these changes WILL provide a decent improvement. (i'm rural though)

Much of the vectoring will actually help longer lines in Urban situations more too.

Real world though, each to their own... we are yet to see.

I'd love to have WAK/C upgraded to test with @chorusnz ;)

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timmay556

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Reply # 1881937 11-Oct-2017 13:06

That's fantastic, I am only on a ADSL modem, do you know where I can find when my exchange will be upgraded and how I would test potential VDSL speeds?
Thanks

hio77

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Reply # 1881938 11-Oct-2017 13:14

timmay556: That's fantastic, I am only on a ADSL modem, do you know where I can find when my exchange will be upgraded and how I would test potential VDSL speeds?
Thanks

If your on spark's network i can very likely give you an accurate figure based on testing.

past that i can manually do a few things to give you a good idea.

Realistically though, depending on situation results can still be a mixed bag - Quality of copper, crosstalk etc is the biggest pulling factor still.

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DS248

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Reply # 1881959 11-Oct-2017 13:51

The chart on p4 of the Chorus White Paper, indicates very little benefit of VDSL, vectoring or otherwise, at 1.9km. Even in our situation (1.5km, mainly rural line) vectoring seems to have a relatively small impact.

Having said that I am not certain how real the numbers are in that plot. Based on the White Paper numbers, our DS rate would be only ~20Mbs without vectoring. Our actual rate is typically ~27Mbs (33-34 'attainable') on 17a and ~25Mbs to 30+Mbs (33-38 'attainable') on 8b (another story).

Will be interesting to see what happens.

Is there a cabinet upgrade schedule available for areas beyond the pilot study area? I assume we are on RDB/M (anyway to determine that from our modem (DSL-AC56U)?

hio77

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Reply # 1881961 11-Oct-2017 14:12

DS248:

The chart on p4 of the Chorus White Paper, indicates very little benefit of VDSL, vectoring or otherwise, at 1.9km. Even in our situation (1.5km, mainly rural line) vectoring seems to have a relatively small impact.

Having said that I am not certain how real the numbers are in that plot. Based on the White Paper numbers, our DS rate would be only ~20Mbs without vectoring. Our actual rate is typically ~27Mbs (33-34 'attainable') on 17a and ~25Mbs to 30+Mbs (33-38 'attainable') on 8b (another story).

Will be interesting to see what happens.

Is there a cabinet upgrade schedule available for areas beyond the pilot study area? I assume we are on RDB/M (anyway to determine that from our modem (DSL-AC56U)?

Most of the improvements will be to Noise.

Hidden little benefit of enabled G.INP, is the difference to how Interleaving is handled.

at distance, you can't polish a turd. Loss of distance is a very real thing.

Influences further pulling it down though, you can alleviate a little.

The graphs are based on alot of theory.

Chorus have some ammazing theory behind their estimations.

For my line, i get 21/2 on VDSL at 6dB snr at 26dB. (ADSL was 15/1 at 12dB snr @ 27dB, VDSL @12dB is 17/1)

Chorus estimate, 12/1 on VDSL and ADSL. 9.6- 16.15dB estimated attenuation at 160k.

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DS248

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Reply # 1881963 11-Oct-2017 14:17

On a different issue, I notice that we are frequently switched back and forth between 8b and 17a profiles. Sometimes it appears to be almost on a daily basis, though at the moment it has been on 17a for over five days (longest I have noticed it for a while).

Why the constant switching?

DS & US rates are more consistent on 17a, but US rate in particular is lower (~2.0Mbs vs ~2.8Mbs). Error rate in 17a is generally a lot higher, though I gather still well within acceptable limits.

Would also be interesting to know why DS SNR varies on 8b? Sometimes down to 6.3 - 6.7 (attainable rate up to 38, even for SNR 7.4), most recently up to 9.5 (attainable rate <34).

Also, why the often 'large' margin between attainable and actual DS rates? A lot smaller for US.

Be nice if US rate was higher :).

DS248

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Reply # 1881966 11-Oct-2017 14:27

Should have mentioned, US errors are negligible on both 8b and 17a (hence did not bother to include in the table).

eg. currently a total of three (3) US errors after 5 days 10 hours up time on 17a (vs 1254 DS errors)

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