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sbiddle
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  #125758 23-Apr-2008 08:11
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Are you in the running for communications minister? Smile


maverick
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  #125764 23-Apr-2008 08:25
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As the TUI adds say

"Maverick for Telco Minister.........Yeah Right"

Smile




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old3eyes
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  #125767 23-Apr-2008 08:32
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Fiber to the home would be nice but I think the cost will be closer to $3.5Bil.  I think the $1.5Bil will be gobbled up in Gov committees  and the like..




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gehenna
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  #125769 23-Apr-2008 08:36
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I only had time to read the first half of this, will read the rest later....but I'm wondering, does it mention who will effectively "own" this fibre network?  Is this a purely government initiative or will it be a commercial venture leaving us under the umbrella of a Telecom-esque pre-LLU regime?  Or, will the network just be the road that lots of ISPs can use to provide internet to consumers?  I think each of these questions opens up it's own pandora's box so-to-speak.  For instance, if this is going to be a government run network then the rules of usage, and functionality of that network, are at the whim of each incumbent party following each election. Sorry if this is mentioned in the article, I'll quote myself as lazy once I read it later :)

mushion22
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  #125774 23-Apr-2008 08:48
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    "Are you in the running for communications minister? "

Only a slight conflict of interest in that proposition! Haha. ;)

I absolutely agree that Fibre is the technology choice of the future. Its just the details I am interested in.
I am particularly interested in what kind of model Mr Key will go for.
Eg, will they go more towards the FibreCo path where the government will invest in a share of Telecom's network and get everyone on board, including local councils, property developers, city planners, Transit, power companies, railway companies, smaller ISPs etc etc to collaboratively plan a network. Will it mean that when it comes to rolling out new power lines, new roads, new subdivisions, new drains, new waterways etc, we say 'Ok lets spend a little extra now putting in trenchs/ducts/tunnels etc that can be used for power but also lets get Company X, as part of the national fibre cooperative, to put in a bunch of fibre at the same time.'

Or are we going to give Telecom the middle finger and go out and dig new trenches and duplicate the entire network because we can? This is where I'm a little uncertain. The question is, do we really need two independent networks? Or do we pool resources and develop a single robust network and compete solely on content and services.

It seems to me that all the infrastructure developers such as councils, government, private companies, etc could do a much better job of coordinating activities to reduce the cost of replacing all infrastructure rather than just a single part (naturally baring in mind that we dont want to bundle too many 'main arteries' together for national security reasons.'

The other part of what I was saying is the way in which we roll out a network. To me it sounds best to put Telecom's network under a new shared access company or society or something like that, and make it totally open all ISPs (ie remove all but technical limitations), and then find opportunites to upgrade the network in the most cost effective way (eg, upgrade backhaul capacity and robustness, upgrade cabinets to support xDSL now and then roll out FTTH from them whenever roads or power lines etc get upgraded in the area), while making sure any new rollouts are using new technology.

I totally agree about needing bandwidth to be more creative (eg IPTV, Triple play, Cloud computing etc), and fibre being the best option.

I'm a little unsure of the argument for dual networks which would assumably be based on fairly similar technologies though. And I think the collaboration part needs to be emphasized rather than the technology part - we all want a better network, but I think its more than just throwing money at Company XYZ, its more about working with all infrastructure providers to reduce the cost of a rollout and making sure that we dont end up with a bunch of complicating technologies all overlapping each other, with repeated costs incurred of multiple trenches and cabinets all over the place.

I'm not a network designer though so please point out my naivity from any angle. And again, I'm all for sharing and caring for the public good but maybe my views are a bit optimistic in the real world.

It's a very interesting topic, and will bring out the political and economic views in all of us haha. Does anyone have much experience or in depth knowledge on how similar initiatives have worked around the world?

mushion22
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  #125785 23-Apr-2008 09:08
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In thinking about it a bit more, theres the other option of councils, developers, transit etc putting in a fibre local loop (dark fibre between homes and shared cabinets/excahnges), and ISPs have-atting it from there, being able to compete on their equipment quality, backhaul contention, as well as their services and content.

The other extreme is a shared end-to-end network where everyone gets equal connections nationally of the maximum supportable quality, and ISPs become international providers and content carriers, kind of like how phone companies compete for toll carriage I suppose.

My guess is that Telecom would go for the first one (Ie essentially a fibre replacement of what we will have under LLU) seeing as they have the clout to actually roll out equipment nationally. Meanwhile, I assume smaller ISPs would like the other extreme because it gives them access to the entire potential market without having to fork out to install their own gear.

If those assumptions are true - the first option would only really solve the competition problems in the main centres, just as LLU will, where it's viable for smaller ISPs to install their own equipment, while those in less dense population centres will still be at the peril of the incumbent.

xlinknz
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  #125796 23-Apr-2008 09:56
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I am particularly interested in what kind of model Mr Key will go for.


Well it could well turn out that Chorus is nationalised and becomes one in the same as Fibreco Undecided

 
 
 
 


allstarnz
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  #125797 23-Apr-2008 10:03
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vote and headline grabbing.

How could they 'waste' so much money when it could go into health and education Undecided  Wink

mushion22
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  #125800 23-Apr-2008 10:13
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Was investing in roading and rail a 'waste?' Was investing in electricity infrastructure a 'waste?' Was investing in water filtration and distribution, waste management, public transport... anything... a waste?

Remember that its not just about putting money into a black hole, its about spending money on a return. Theoretically a return that would improve our ability to manage health and education. eg, if every kid has access to broadband, it opens up the possibility of increased e-learning both at school and at home. If every doctor had access to ultra speed broadband, it would allow for collaboration on diagnosis and access to patient and medical information, and potentially even remote assistance for surgical procedures as has been shown in various projects for mobile and remore surgeries etc.

The government is about improving lives of NZers as a whole - and I think you would have to be a bit closed minded not to see the positive impacts broadband would have on the general wellbeing of New Zealanders, including on their education and health.

NZtechfreak
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  #125802 23-Apr-2008 10:17
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Too little there, too many questions remaining, to really form much of an opinion on the promise IMO.

Good political positioning for National though, an astute move that appeals to business and many members of the general public - including some groups like students that National have not tended to do that well with. The other thing about this is that it adds to the "time for change" appeal that a long-standing opposition has going for them, since it sounds like there is a vision and sense of going forward. Whether there actually is or not hardly matters, most voters won't think critically enough one way or the other.




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mushion22
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  #125804 23-Apr-2008 10:24
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True. A large proportion of people aren't going to be asking 'but what model will they use' - they are going to say 'mmm fast internet, i'll get my downloads in 5 minutes rather than 30 and can say goodbye to youtube buffering! Woohoo Vote National!'

xlinknz
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  #125813 23-Apr-2008 10:35
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allstarnz: vote and headline grabbing.
How could they 'waste' so much money when it could go into health and education Undecided  Wink


Vote and Headline grabbing yes, a waste no, would money be better spent on Health and Education probably esp Health

We should all be mindful the a large portion of NZ do not care for FTTH as it is not a priority for them, they are more concerned with having food on the table and healthcare.

Lots of promises are made by what IT can offer and it usually fails to meet the hype. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have FTTH but its all about priorities and future planning.









maverick
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  #125817 23-Apr-2008 10:47
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Agree with these coments , could we do more on health and education, the answer to that is always yes,

these things should not be mutually exclusive I want more teachers with better pay, I want a health system where the paint isn't falling off the walls and woman that have just given birth arn't left next to a toliet for 24 hours on a bench, I want the police to have better pay for the rubbish they have to put up with and doing a job not many people could or would do.

But I also want an infrastructure that can help NZ into the 21s't century where we won't be crying every 2 or 3 years about our countries bad infrastructre and poor services delivered over it and how where behind the rest of the world, we have enough of that already with the roads in Auckland Wink, lets be a can do instead of thinking of reasons why we cant.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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nzbnw
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#125821 23-Apr-2008 11:03
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Maverick: As the TUI adds say

"Maverick for Telco Minister.........Yeah Right"


You would do a lot better job than the (yes I know we don't call people names, so I will tone it down) muppet who holds that position now!


xlinknz:
I am particularly interested in what kind of model Mr Key will go for.


Well it could well turn out that Chorus is nationalised and becomes one in the same as Fibreco


This is highly unlikely, for both National and Labour, while it may be popular with the public because Telecom bashing is the thing to do these days, you must also ask, what next? Vector?

nzbnw







idlearts
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  #125829 23-Apr-2008 11:30
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I agree the network needs major investment but I wouldn't want to be the one to commit to 1.5 billion on something that should have been done a decade ago, not when you consider the pace of scientific discovery and current research, I'd be very unwilling to shell out on a fiber network in light of the possibilities of Quantum communication methods being firmly on the horizon.

http://www.quantum.at/research/quantum-teleportation-communication-entanglement.html 





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