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742 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 214965 6-Jun-2017 11:39
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Hi there, 

 

I've had a good read through the 'Changes to DLM incoming' thread and have also read Chorus's info on the change, but can't seem to find a solid answer to this question (there may not be a solid answer, but I'd be keen to get thoughts on it anyway). :)

 

Basically at our house, when VDSL was first available, we were just outside the coverage area (looking at broadbandmap.nz). A while ago - maybe 6 months or so? The coverage areas of VDSL increased (according to the coverage map at least) and we were then inside the coverage area. 

 

I asked our ISP (BigPipe, who are awesome) if they could change us over to VDSL and see what sort of speed we got. I already had a master splitter installed and all brand new cabling in the house, and a Draytek DV130 in bridge mode to a Ubiquiti ER-Lite, just FYI.

 

Sync speed went from around 12/1 on ADSL to around 15/.25 on VDSL. Needless to say that was horrible, so we changed back to ADSL asap.

 

With this DLM change, our ADSL sync speed has now gone from around 12/1 to 16/1.15, and I was wondering if anyone had any idea if VDSL would now be noticeably better than this.

 

I don't have access to the modem right at this moment but can post screenshots of all the line stats if that would be helpful.

 

Feel a bit bad asking BigPipe to change again, just to potentially change back - I assume it would cost them to do that change over?

 

Thanks in advance for any info!

 

 

 

Cheers.


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  # 1795252 6-Jun-2017 11:47
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it's impossible to answer that with any level of accuracy but the best guess would be no.

 

The recent DLM changes will improve good and average connections but won't do much for a poor connection.

 

 


'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 1795256 6-Jun-2017 11:56
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based on what your line was doing on VDSL, i'd say your probably best on on adsl with the 6dB profile (assuming line is stable)

 

 

 

that would get you to about 18/1.2 at best which lines up with about what your getting.





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1795257 6-Jun-2017 11:57
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'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 1795258 6-Jun-2017 12:00
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Jase2985:

 

hio77

 

 

spark and bigpipe are different networks fyi be it under the spark umbrella.

 

 

 

 comments are as above :)





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742 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1795259 6-Jun-2017 12:01
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Thanks heaps guys - I know it's a bit of an unknown but that's very helpful. Think we'll just stick with ADSL for now - it is rock solid and the recent speed increase has been very nice. 

 

We're in the UFB2 area which is awesome, due sometime in 2019 so will wait for that. 

 

 

 

Thanks again. 


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  # 1795272 6-Jun-2017 12:27
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wratterus:

 

Thanks heaps guys - I know it's a bit of an unknown but that's very helpful. Think we'll just stick with ADSL for now - it is rock solid and the recent speed increase has been very nice. 

 

We're in the UFB2 area which is awesome, due sometime in 2019 so will wait for that. 

 

 

 

Thanks again. 

 

 

 

 

You can trial VDSL again, you may get like 22/1.2 but this is all maybes.

 

 

 

I run dual connections at home, borderline Rural connection.

 

 

 

23/1.21 on VDSL

 

17/1.25 on ADSL

 

 

 

This is hard to compare as the VDSL line is a little more worse quality than the ADSL line.

 

 

 

at 6dB US1 is just short of being used, so there is no boost on upload speed there infact less as VDSL is shaped down faster on US0 as to not affect ADSL2 speeds.

 

The one thing to remember is if you switch out connections, likely they will go back to defaults and you will need to wait for ddDLM to pull it down to faster speeds (and that is assuming ddDLM decides faster speeds is right for that line)





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742 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1795299 6-Jun-2017 12:39
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hio77:

 

wratterus:

 

Thanks heaps guys - I know it's a bit of an unknown but that's very helpful. Think we'll just stick with ADSL for now - it is rock solid and the recent speed increase has been very nice. 

 

We're in the UFB2 area which is awesome, due sometime in 2019 so will wait for that. 

 

 

 

Thanks again. 

 

 

 

 

You can trial VDSL again, you may get like 22/1.2 but this is all maybes.

 

 

 

I run dual connections at home, borderline Rural connection.

 

 

 

23/1.21 on VDSL

 

17/1.25 on ADSL

 

 

 

This is hard to compare as the VDSL line is a little more worse quality than the ADSL line.

 

 

 

at 6dB US1 is just short of being used, so there is no boost on upload speed there infact less as VDSL is shaped down faster on US0 as to not affect ADSL2 speeds.

 

The one thing to remember is if you switch out connections, likely they will go back to defaults and you will need to wait for ddDLM to pull it down to faster speeds (and that is assuming ddDLM decides faster speeds is right for that line)

 

 

I've certainly done everything possible at my end to get the line as good as possible. Would it give any better idea if I posted line stats? 


 
 
 
 


'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 1795311 6-Jun-2017 12:41
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wratterus:

 

 

 

I've certainly done everything possible at my end to get the line as good as possible. Would it give any better idea if I posted line stats? 

 

 

Spectrum and srnm would be best in this case, but as mentioned previously you run the risk of loosing the current 6dB profile you are on.

 

if US0 dropped to 250kbit last time, i would not expect that situation to have improved much unfortunately.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




742 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1795345 6-Jun-2017 13:05
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hio77:

 

 

 

Spectrum and srnm would be best in this case, but as mentioned previously you run the risk of loosing the current 6dB profile you are on.

 

if US0 dropped to 250kbit last time, i would not expect that situation to have improved much unfortunately.

 



Just popped home and grabbed the latest line stats. I found the old ADSL and VDSL stats too. The Draytek isn't great for stats, nothing like the FritzBox that's for sure. 

First is old ADSL, then VDSL, then ADSL with DLM. Interestingly the upload is identical on both ADSL screenshots - I'm almost positive I was seeing over 1200kbps the other day, although this certainly could have changed. The main difference to my untrained eye is the SNR, although what that actually means I don't know. 

 

 

 






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Ultimate Geek


  # 1795417 6-Jun-2017 15:17
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wratterus:

 

The Draytek isn't great for stats, nothing like the FritzBox that's for sure. 

 

 

For future reference the Vigor will spit out full stats if you telnet/SSH in and type 'vdsl status'.

 

Still not as good as the FritzBox, with its pretty spectrum graphs etc, but a lot more detail than you get on the web interface.


336 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1795617 6-Jun-2017 21:30
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DV130 has a spectrum graph with newer firmware, its under:
Diagnostics
DSL Status
Tone Information

 

Click to see full size

 

Not sure at which FW version this got implemented but its there now
FW Downloads here - ftp://ftp.draytek.com/Vigor130/Firmware/

 

Also STD FW file has broken stats and has been for ever it reports no error stats at all
I use Modem8 FW which has fully working stats BUT can affect your connection rate, I get better Download but lower upload (which is more stable with less CRC and ES errors)




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Ultimate Geek


  # 1795791 7-Jun-2017 10:20
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freakngeek:

 

DV130 has a spectrum graph with newer firmware, its under:
Diagnostics
DSL Status
Tone Information

 

Click to see full size

 

Not sure at which FW version this got implemented but its there now
FW Downloads here - ftp://ftp.draytek.com/Vigor130/Firmware/

 

Also STD FW file has broken stats and has been for ever it reports no error stats at all
I use Modem8 FW which has fully working stats BUT can affect your connection rate, I get better Download but lower upload (which is more stable with less CRC and ES errors)

 

 

 

 

That's handy - I've just done a firmware update on the DV130 here to 3.8.1.2 (different from the one at home and on VDSL) but don't get that tone info tab. 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 1795794 7-Jun-2017 10:29
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OK, STD Firmware can't have it enabled, try Modem 8 Firmware, its what I use.




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Ultimate Geek


  # 1795818 7-Jun-2017 11:05
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freakngeek:

 

OK, STD Firmware can't have it enabled, try Modem 8 Firmware, its what I use.

 

 

 

 

So a bit of a departure from the original question, but this is ideal - stats finally work!! Haha. FECS seems quite high? The modem had only been sync'd for 2 mins when I took that screenshot. 

 

 

 

So this isn't my modem, I'll do this on mine tonight and see what we see. 

 



This is before with the standard firmware

 

Click to see full size

 

and modem 8

 

Click to see full size

 

 

 

I see it's even been reporting the wrong profile!

 

Big thanks for the advice on that. Awesome. 


336 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1795882 7-Jun-2017 11:36
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FECS are fine, they are repairable, but can lead to CRC, ES and worst of all SES errors which are bad
Too many errors and I think your Interleave Depth goes up, which for me means Lower actual DS connection speed
ddDLM doesn't seem to want to change the SNR back up once lowered.


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