Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3
3091 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 509

Trusted

  Reply # 1857466 3-Sep-2017 09:16
Send private message quote this post

This wouldnt be the first time chorus has upgraded dslams and suddenly made telepermitted modems incompatible.

 

At a previous job, we were replacing modems around hawkes bay non-stop for a few days when they decided to upgrade some firmware in the dslams and a whole bunch of spark modems were no longer compatible.

 

Was unfortunately the customers who had to argue our bill with spark, and spark probably couldnt get a refund from chorus.





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




138 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 1857735 3-Sep-2017 21:20
Send private message quote this post

They did a VDSL baseplan change last year but did a out fair amount of testing and there was plenty of notice about it too.


 
 
 
 


1337 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 474


  Reply # 1866331 14-Sep-2017 16:07
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post
'That VDSL Cat'
6665 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1266

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1866333 14-Sep-2017 16:08
Send private message quote this post

DarkShadow:

 

Chorus whitepaper on vectoring

 

https://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/upgrading-vdsl-vectoring

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just saw, drop what i'm doing and rejoice!

 

 

 

G.INP also indicated!





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


124 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 55

Trusted

  Reply # 1866552 14-Sep-2017 22:43
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

DarkShadow:

 

Chorus whitepaper on vectoring

 

https://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/upgrading-vdsl-vectoring

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just saw, drop what i'm doing and rejoice!

 

 

 

G.INP also indicated!

 

 

 

 

Definitely G.INP in conjuntion with Vectoring.


89 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 1866646 15-Sep-2017 08:36
Send private message quote this post

I wonder what the Christchurch area would be - most of Christchurch has fibre already through enable (or is coming soon). Hoping for Kirwee!




84 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 18


  Reply # 1866662 15-Sep-2017 08:58
Send private message quote this post

So would I be right in saying that Chorus will not be forcing people to make sure Vectoring is enabled on their modems, or get a compatible modem if they don't have one? From my understanding of the technology, this would decrease the benefits of it significantly?

Once it's all enabled from Chorus's end, is there a sure fire way to confirm whether it's working or not from looking at a modem?

 

Looking at the Draytek DV130 for example - the STD firmware it ships with doesn't seem to be compatible, but 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are - on Draytek's firmware release notes, they recommend 8 for the NBN, but the Oz Draytek site recommends 4 for AU and NZ - both support Vectoring, but use a different Modem Code.

Is Chorus's implementation of Vectoring identical to what's being used for the NBN, or is it slightly different?

Sorry for all the questions haha. 


Edit - One other question too - I know Vectoring is only for VDSL, but would the benefits of being able to run VDSL lines at lower power level, which in turn I assume would reduce crosstalk, actually benefit ADSL lines further out on the same cabinet?


6985 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2218

Subscriber

  Reply # 1866787 15-Sep-2017 11:50
Send private message quote this post

Theclaytons:

 

I wonder what the Christchurch area would be - most of Christchurch has fibre already through enable (or is coming soon). Hoping for Kirwee!

 

 

if you read the information it will apply in non chorus fibre areas and any area not covered by chorus fibre, ie rural areas.


6985 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2218

Subscriber

  Reply # 1866794 15-Sep-2017 11:59
Send private message quote this post

wratterus:

 

So would I be right in saying that Chorus will not be forcing people to make sure Vectoring is enabled on their modems, or get a compatible modem if they don't have one? From my understanding of the technology, this would decrease the benefits of it significantly?

Once it's all enabled from Chorus's end, is there a sure fire way to confirm whether it's working or not from looking at a modem?

 

Looking at the Draytek DV130 for example - the STD firmware it ships with doesn't seem to be compatible, but 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are - on Draytek's firmware release notes, they recommend 8 for the NBN, but the Oz Draytek site recommends 4 for AU and NZ - both support Vectoring, but use a different Modem Code.

Is Chorus's implementation of Vectoring identical to what's being used for the NBN, or is it slightly different?

Sorry for all the questions haha. 


Edit - One other question too - I know Vectoring is only for VDSL, but would the benefits of being able to run VDSL lines at lower power level, which in turn I assume would reduce crosstalk, actually benefit ADSL lines further out on the same cabinet?

 

 

if your modem supports vectoring it will be used, i dont know if many modems support the option to turn it on an off.

 

there are graphs in the white paper that show the difference with different number of crosstalk sources (non vectoring VDSL lines), there is also a nice picture showing the difference between a bundle with all vectored lines and a few alien lines. there are only about 10% of devices out there that dont support vectoring in some form, and i would say they would make up less well than 10% of the total lines out there, and most modems offered by ISP's support it.

 

I would say being able to see if G.INP is enabled is a good way to see if vectoring is enabled, + you would likely see an increase in speed :)

 

ADSL and VDSL use different frequencies so i dont think it would have too much affect on ADSL


'That VDSL Cat'
6665 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1266

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1866967 15-Sep-2017 15:28
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

BMarquis:

 

Definitely G.INP in conjuntion with Vectoring.

 

 

Feel free to use WAK/C as a testcase ;)

 

 

 

Zero Touch is the interesting bit of all of this, I'm yet to actually come across a paper that explains how the tech actually manages to mitigate the effect of lines that are not vectoring compatible.

 

The snobby in me who just wants to see VDSL at its best says drop zero touch and just boot all those customers off the network. RSP can provide a working device and all the crappy third party modems can go!

 

 

 

 

 

Dreams are free right?





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


6985 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2218

Subscriber

  Reply # 1866975 15-Sep-2017 15:38
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

BMarquis:

 

Definitely G.INP in conjuntion with Vectoring.

 

 

Feel free to use WAK/C as a testcase ;)

 

 

 

Zero Touch is the interesting bit of all of this, I'm yet to actually come across a paper that explains how the tech actually manages to mitigate the effect of lines that are not vectoring compatible.

 

The snobby in me who just wants to see VDSL at its best says drop zero touch and just boot all those customers off the network. RSP can provide a working device and all the crappy third party modems can go!

 

 

 

 

 

Dreams are free right?

 

 

being tested in Christchurch i believe

 

and from reading the white paper there is no way zero touch can mitigate against it, the whole bundles performance just drops. still looks like most lines would get an increase just no where near as good as having the whole bundle on vectoring


'That VDSL Cat'
6665 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1266

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1866984 15-Sep-2017 15:58
Send private message quote this post

Jase2985:

 

 

 

being tested in Christchurch i believe

 

and from reading the white paper there is no way zero touch can mitigate against it, the whole bundles performance just drops. still looks like most lines would get an increase just no where near as good as having the whole bundle on vectoring

 

 

Yes it is, I'm simply poking at Brent there.

 

 

 

 

 

Zero touch won't mitigate it all, however it claims to do something for it, chorus's FAQ also echos this.

 

however; both Nokia AL have not really defined it past all the fluff as far as i have read.....





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


124 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 55

Trusted

  Reply # 1867173 16-Sep-2017 07:50
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

wratterus:

 

So would I be right in saying that Chorus will not be forcing people to make sure Vectoring is enabled on their modems, or get a compatible modem if they don't have one? From my understanding of the technology, this would decrease the benefits of it significantly?

 

 

Thats right, Chorus won't force new devices.
This is achievable thorugh the use of Nokia's Zero-Toucg vectoring.

 

wratterus:

 

Once it's all enabled from Chorus's end, is there a sure fire way to confirm whether it's working or not from looking at a modem?

 

Looking at the Draytek DV130 for example - the STD firmware it ships with doesn't seem to be compatible, but 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are - on Draytek's firmware release notes, they recommend 8 for the NBN, but the Oz Draytek site recommends 4 for AU and NZ - both support Vectoring, but use a different Modem Code.

Is Chorus's implementation of Vectoring identical to what's being used for the NBN, or is it slightly different?

 

 

Yes, modems will typically state in their DSL stats that Vectoring is running.
NBNCo do not use Zero-Touch, otherwise it is equivalent.

 

wratterus:

Edit - One other question too - I know Vectoring is only for VDSL, but would the benefits of being able to run VDSL lines at lower power level, which in turn I assume would reduce crosstalk, actually benefit ADSL lines further out on the same cabinet?

 



Not really, as Vectoring will not be running below 2.2Mhz to protect the ADSL lines.
Might see some of the effect you are talking about, but I dont expect it to be significant.


124 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 55

Trusted

  Reply # 1867177 16-Sep-2017 07:57
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

BMarquis:

 

Definitely G.INP in conjuntion with Vectoring.

 

 

Feel free to use WAK/C as a testcase ;)

 

 

 

Zero Touch is the interesting bit of all of this, I'm yet to actually come across a paper that explains how the tech actually manages to mitigate the effect of lines that are not vectoring compatible.

 

The snobby in me who just wants to see VDSL at its best says drop zero touch and just boot all those customers off the network. RSP can provide a working device and all the crappy third party modems can go!

 

 

 

 

 

Dreams are free right?

 

 

 

 

WAK/C - nope :)

 

Zero-Touch is a Nokia solution, they dont want it copied.
The ISAM knows which CPE are not Vectoring friendly or capable, then the ISAM can cancel a non-vectoring modem's downstream signal on the affected vectored lines - as the crosstalk can still be calculated.
From what I've seen it works really well, and the main limitation is no upstream vectoring.  The new line card which supports vectoring is, anecdotally, performing better upstream anyway.


3301 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 627


  Reply # 1867180 16-Sep-2017 08:29
Send private message quote this post

Theclaytons:

 

I wonder what the Christchurch area would be - most of Christchurch has fibre already through enable (or is coming soon). Hoping for Kirwee!

 

 

It looks like it will be in Kirwee.

 

https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/ufb-initiative/ultra-fast-broadband-extension/


1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

From small to medium and beyond: Navigating the ERP battlefield
Posted 21-Nov-2017 21:12


Business owners: ERP software selection starts (and finishes) with you
Posted 21-Nov-2017 21:11


Why I'm not an early adopter
Posted 21-Nov-2017 10:39


Netatmo launches smart home products in New Zealand
Posted 20-Nov-2017 20:06


Huawei Mate 10: Punchy, long battery life, artificial intelligence
Posted 20-Nov-2017 16:30


Propel launch Disney Star Wars Laser Battle Drones
Posted 19-Nov-2017 21:26


UFB killer app: Speed
Posted 17-Nov-2017 17:01


The case for RSS — MacSparky
Posted 13-Nov-2017 14:35


WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence — 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30
Posted 11-Nov-2017 13:43


Chorus reveals technology upgrade for schools, students
Posted 10-Nov-2017 10:28


Vodafone says Internet of Things (IoT) crucial for digital transformation
Posted 10-Nov-2017 10:06


Police and Facebook launch AMBER Alerts system in NZ
Posted 9-Nov-2017 10:49


Amazon debuts Fire TV Stick Basic Edition in over 100 new countries
Posted 8-Nov-2017 05:34


Vodafone VoIP transition to start this month
Posted 7-Nov-2017 12:33


Spark enhances IoT network capability
Posted 7-Nov-2017 11:33



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.