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Topic # 222970 6-Sep-2017 08:50
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Background:

 

My neighbour was getting fibre installed, she has a relatively new house with underground services.

 

She was told by a Chorus subcontractor (Visionstream) that because the old copper wiring was direct buried she would have to accept an overhead connection.

 

She said “no” and told them to come back with a better plan. Anyway they have said she needs to accept overhead or pay for the install herself.

 

I had similar problems with my install a few years back so I did a little research which helped her, and I thought might help some others facing similar problems of arguments over fibre installs.

 

 

 

The following extracts are from the “Network Infrastructure Project Agreement” between Chorus and Crown fibre holdings signed in January 2017. I have only included parts of the clauses relevant to a normal domestic install to a stand alone house. If you want to see the whole thing go to the CFH website and download it.

 

Annex 1

 

2.10 Standard and non standard installation

 

(a) … A Standard Installation is a Connection where the distance required to install the End User-Specific Infrastructure is up to 200m from the Premises Boundary Termination Point to the ETP on the outside wall of the Premises..

 

(c)           Notwithstanding clauses 2.10(a) and 2.10(b) of this Annexure, a Standard Installation includes the ETP and the internal Premises wiring (including MDU wiring)…..

 

(d)          Notwithstanding clauses 2.10(a) and 2.10(b) of this Annexure, for Bitstream Services, a Standard Installation also includes:

 

(i)            installing the ONT inside the Premises at the location specified by the End User and Connecting it to the Network (generally at the point of highest data usage in the Premises, such as behind the TV set); …..

 

(e)          Best Industry Practice applies when Connecting an End User, ensuring that the End User-Specific Infrastructure and associated Connections are to a high standard. This would, for example, limit the use of surface mounting within a Premises to situations where alternatives are not possible. (My Note: must be "not possible" not "difficult")

 

(f)           Connections must be made on a like-for-like basis unless otherwise agreed by the End User. This means that where an existing telecommunications service is underground, then the fibre End User-Specific Infrastructure must be underground, and where the existing telecommunications service is aerial, then the fibre End User-Specific Infrastructure must be aerial.

 

(g)          The fibre End User-Specific Infrastructure can only be a ‘fence-line’ installation if the Company first consults with the End User and obtains the End User’s prior written consent to a ‘fence-line’ installation.

 

(h)          Re-instatement for any form of End User-Specific Infrastructure is to be on a like-for-like basis; for example, a concrete surface must be replaced with a concrete surface, an asphalt surface with an asphalt surface, and a grass surface with a grass surface. However, an exact match is not required (for example, a coloured surface may be patched with an uncoloured surface) and full-width replacement is not required (but always consistent with the duty to act in accordance with Best Industry Practice).

 

but for the avoidance of doubt, the Company will not be entitled to recover any charges for performing the requirements set out in clauses 2.10(a), 2.10(b), 2.10(c) and 2.10(d) of this Annexure. (My Note: This means Chorus cannot charge the end user for a Standard install)

 

I hope this is at least of interest to some

 

 





Matthew


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  Reply # 1859430 6-Sep-2017 09:18
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Thanks mdooher, this may come in handy at some stage. It appears a lot of people have had issues with installing fibre. I myself have an issue where there is fibre 500 meters away but chorus cannot provide me with fibre.


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  Reply # 1859438 6-Sep-2017 09:28
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Thanks - very timely. Chorus are coming this afternoon to reassess after first saying they couldn't do it because of tree roots.





Amanon

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1859443 6-Sep-2017 09:36
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Dulouz:

Thanks - very timely. Chorus are coming this afternoon to reassess after first saying they couldn't do it because of tree roots.



A bit of hand digging never hurt anyone, certainly far from impossible. I bet drainlayer could do it.




Matthew


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  Reply # 1859447 6-Sep-2017 09:45
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If I'm reading correctly, the document you referred to is for UFB2, and not UFB1?


IcI

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  Reply # 1859498 6-Sep-2017 10:12
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mdooher: ...

 

(i)            installing the ONT inside the Premises at the location specified by the End User and Connecting it to the Network (generally at the point of highest data usage in the Premises, such as behind the TV set); …..

 

Maybe I should have been more insistent on the placement of my ONT.




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  Reply # 1859550 6-Sep-2017 11:21
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Yes, this for UFB2, it is very similar for UFB1, that schedule (standard install) is no longer on the CFH website, but I have asked them for a copy




Matthew


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  Reply # 1859678 6-Sep-2017 13:17
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Nice research there.

 

 

 

This is very much like any trades work, If there is leway to pull a dodgy it can and sometimes is done.

 

I'm sure the actual value of installs that chorus pull the wool over customers eyes are low, however many of us only see the extreme and horrible cases.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 1859686 6-Sep-2017 13:32
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Great stuff.  Also I'm impressed at how clear those particular agreements are.  Very "black and white".

 

For others looking to find the original agreements (for Chorus and others), you can download them here: https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/crown-partners/agreements-with-ufb-partners/


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  Reply # 1861391 9-Sep-2017 17:25
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IcI:

 

mdooher: ...

 

(i)            installing the ONT inside the Premises at the location specified by the End User and Connecting it to the Network (generally at the point of highest data usage in the Premises, such as behind the TV set); …..

 

Maybe I should have been more insistent on the placement of my ONT.

 

 

If you have a sensible place for the ONT that is required to interconnect other networks in the premises then absolutely insist on any placement that will achieve that effect. If they say the only choice is to put it somewhere convenient then that location must have some network link to any hub with a switch and/or router thats located elsewhere. Also consider that separating a network hub from the ONT prevents you from having a single backup power supply (UPS) covering the critical points of the network. If that location does not have a copper landline then you could also insist on an ITP linking your ONT or router to the house phone wiring.





Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 1862023 10-Sep-2017 23:31
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When they installed fibre for me, they insisted on linking it back into the copper phone wiring. Except my house didn't have any functional phone wiring. The only working copper telecoms wiring I had at the time was ~5m of CAT5 from the demark point directly to my ADSL router. So they just installed a jackpoint next to the ONT and wired it back to what was the demark - now the ETP.

 

I told them to not waste their time doing that as I would never use any copper phone wiring ever again. They said that they had to just in case my install got selected for auditing. Although I suspect the install requirements have since changed.








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  Reply # 1862038 11-Sep-2017 07:22
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Aredwood:

When they installed fibre for me, they insisted on linking it back into the copper phone wiring. Except my house didn't have any functional phone wiring. The only working copper telecoms wiring I had at the time was ~5m of CAT5 from the demark point directly to my ADSL router. So they just installed a jackpoint next to the ONT and wired it back to what was the demark - now the ETP.


I told them to not waste their time doing that as I would never use any copper phone wiring ever again. They said that they had to just in case my install got selected for auditing. Although I suspect the install requirements have since changed.


You could have told them you were not planning to let the auditor in anyway 😀




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  Reply # 1862061 11-Sep-2017 08:26
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One of the neighbours up our ROW (there are 5 properties) applied a while back - maybe six months. We signed the consent and sent it it. Nothing ever happened and last week we got another consent letter. Signed that and sent it in. I wonder if they're getting a no-response from one of the other properties?

 

As do the connection: When we recently re-wired the house, the sparky ran a cable from the house's external phone entry point to the office (where the modem/router lives). That cable carries a combined fibre and Cat6, so presumably if/when we get fibre, there's pretty much nothing for the Chorus contractor to do but join the cables and put the optical modem in the office?

 

 


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  Reply # 1862144 11-Sep-2017 09:39
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hio77:This is very much like any trades work, If there is leway to pull a dodgy it can and sometimes is done.

 

As a qualified "tradesman" I have to take issue with the above statement.

 

Tradespeople are taught to perform work in a "workmanlike manner". This term, an industry standard, refers to the desired and acceptable standard of quality of work and materials on a construction project.

 

I think that you will not find any "tradesmen" doing UFB installations. 





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  Reply # 1862149 11-Sep-2017 09:52
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robfish:

 

I think that you will not find any "tradesmen" doing UFB installations. 

 

 

Sadly that's true. Friend of mine had to stick around and supervise the contractors doing his fibre install as they appeared to be pretty clueless about how they were going about cutting a track up his driveway.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1862337 11-Sep-2017 13:39
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robfish:

 

hio77:This is very much like any trades work, If there is leway to pull a dodgy it can and sometimes is done.

 

As a qualified "tradesman" I have to take issue with the above statement.

 

Tradespeople are taught to perform work in a "workmanlike manner". This term, an industry standard, refers to the desired and acceptable standard of quality of work and materials on a construction project.

 

I think that you will not find any "tradesmen" doing UFB installations. 

 

 

 

 

Did not mean this in any offense. 

 

Qualified tradesman, sure.

 

 

 

Take for example your cowboy builder, drainlayer or anything of the sorts...

 

 

 

Chorus techs can also be like this.

 

Not at all everyone, more than likely it is a few bad eggs that make it all look horrible.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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