Chorus VDSL - Vectoring & G.INP rolling in

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356 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2025749 30-May-2018 16:37

wratterus:

hio77:

Those look to be the modem side flags rather than current.

Ah sure, so like what it's capable of rather than what's necessarily currently enabled.

If that is the case, then I'm still to find a way in the DV130 to tell if Vectoring is actually enabled or not.

If what I have above is capability not actual then for me to tell that Vectoring or G.INP is on, my connection no longer has interleaving, both up and down is now 'Fast'
Sync Speed increase was minimal
But error rate has dropped drastically, I got my first 4 CRC's since Saturday sometime today, no other errors at all.
PSD values are now variable, used to be rock steady never changes, I take it these are power settings, not sure if ddDLM is playing with this now, never did before
Also floating now is actual connection Rate, this would be set at first sync and stay till modem reboot or ddDLM doing a resync
I would at certain parts of the day have a higher actual than attainable and errors would creep in, now actual stays below attainable
So now actual floats around with attainable which also still floats as it used to.

So some changes since vectoring got enabled, but I think most of the above is G.INP at play
And of course the DV130 is very reluctant to tell us if either is enabled, NF4V is same not a sausage
I have my FB7390 setup with a FW I could upload to it to test my link as it does show if both are enabled, but a lot of fiddling by road side with todays high was 4degC from a balmy -6deg in morning

UPDATE
Can anyone with a login for Dratek UK access this page:
https://www.draytek.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=493
The answer to above question should be on this page
I've tried to setup a login but I've never heard back

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freakngeek

356 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2025841 30-May-2018 18:46

I set g.vector to disable, rebooted and modem won't sync

i also loaded modem 1 Firmware (Vectoring disabled) this syncs back to about what I synced to pre-vectoring days (strange that )
The 'VDSL optn status' command still shows g.vectoring as 'ON'

datahawk

251 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2025961 30-May-2018 21:44

freakngeek:

DV130 Telnet command with a little more info is 'vdsl optn status' which reveals this:

Vigor> vdsl optn status
trellis [US] = ON, [DS] = ON.
bitswap [US] = 0, [DS] = 0. [0: default(ON), 1: ON, 2: OFF]
sra [US] = 0, [DS] = 0. [0: default(=3), 2: OFF, 3: ON , 4: DYNAMIC_SOS]
retx [US] = ON, [DS] = ON.
aelem ON
G.Vector ON

F.Y.I. for those interested Draytek users...

I flashed my DV130 to 3.8.2_m8 last night (I was running 3.8.1.2_m4 vectoring enabled before this)

My cabinet has not been 'upgraded' to vectoring yet because my sync is still 106.7 / 35.5 Mbps with actual speed tests returning about 91/33 Mbps. (Unless vectoring will still give me uploads above 30 Mbps?)

The 'vdsl optn status' is identical the quote above so it looks like it is just showing the modem capabilities.

I'm in no hurry for vector changes to be enabled because of my existing sync rates but I would like to find out if my cabinet RDB/AF is scheduled for upgrade - Anyone have a list handy?

mercutio

1392 posts

Uber Geek

#2025963 30-May-2018 21:47

datahawk:

freakngeek:

DV130 Telnet command with a little more info is 'vdsl optn status' which reveals this:

Vigor> vdsl optn status
trellis [US] = ON, [DS] = ON.
bitswap [US] = 0, [DS] = 0. [0: default(ON), 1: ON, 2: OFF]
sra [US] = 0, [DS] = 0. [0: default(=3), 2: OFF, 3: ON , 4: DYNAMIC_SOS]
retx [US] = ON, [DS] = ON.
aelem ON
G.Vector ON

F.Y.I. for those interested Draytek users...

I flashed my DV130 to 3.8.2_m8 last night (I was running 3.8.1.2_m4 vectoring enabled before this)

My cabinet has not been 'upgraded' to vectoring yet because my sync is still 106.7 / 35.5 Mbps with actual speed tests returning about 91/33 Mbps. (Unless vectoring will still give me uploads above 30 Mbps?)

The 'vdsl optn status' is identical the quote above so it looks like it is just showing the modem capabilities.

I'm in no hurry for vector changes to be enabled because of my existing sync rates but I would like to find out if my cabinet RDB/AF is scheduled for upgrade - Anyone have a list handy?

RDB/AE was done. i suspect you're on a double bay cabinet.

DS248

1691 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2025998 30-May-2018 21:57

Anyone know if/when RDB/M is scheduled for upgrade?

datahawk

251 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2025999 30-May-2018 21:58

mercutio:

RDB/AE was done. i suspect you're on a double bay cabinet.

No the AE cabinet is 1 or 2 km north west of ours which puzzles me why that one and another unit a couple of km south were done but RDB/AF was skipped.

There is no dot on the maps in this topic for our location.

freakngeek

356 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2026005 30-May-2018 22:14

datahawk:

F.Y.I. for those interested Draytek users...

I flashed my DV130 to 3.8.2_m8 last night (I was running 3.8.1.2_m4 vectoring enabled before this)

My cabinet has not been 'upgraded' to vectoring yet because my sync is still 106.7 / 35.5 Mbps with actual speed tests returning about 91/33 Mbps. (Unless vectoring will still give me uploads above 30 Mbps?)

The 'vdsl optn status' is identical the quote above so it looks like it is just showing the modem capabilities.

I'm in no hurry for vector changes to be enabled because of my existing sync rates but I would like to find out if my cabinet RDB/AF is scheduled for upgrade - Anyone have a list handy?

Your upstream sync will top out at 30Mbps, you downstream may go up
Loosing 3Mbps is not really a game breaker ?
You should gain some downstream

If it does bother you, then you could I suppose run a non Vectored FW (This would not be ideal for others on same cabinet)
I've tested this for a few minutes and it took me back to pre-vectoring syncs, but I'm not over 30Mbps on upstream and stayed as I was before
My upstream gained about 4Mbps

hio77

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#2026067 31-May-2018 08:08

freakngeek:
Your upstream sync will top out at 30Mbps, you downstream may go up
Loosing 3Mbps is not really a game breaker ?
You should gain some downstream

If it does bother you, then you could I suppose run a non Vectored FW (This would not be ideal for others on same cabinet)
I've tested this for a few minutes and it took me back to pre-vectoring syncs, but I'm not over 30Mbps on upstream and stayed as I was before
My upstream gained about 4Mbps

Ratelimit is in the profile, not ratelimit.

It would be foolish to think turning vectoring off nets any gains.
You will be removing gains from yourself and affecting others.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Dairyxox

1594 posts

Uber Geek

#2026083 31-May-2018 09:07

BMarquis:

Dairyxox:

I've got vectoring on here now.

Download speed has dropped by about 15% (24Mbps to 21Mbps)

Upload speed has increased by about 10% (1.36Mbps to 1.49Mbps)

This suits me fine, as I'm really wanting more upload bandwidth.

We see approx 15% variance on a given line whenever they resync.
Based on the sync rates, I'd say vectoring is not helping you at all, and the change in sync rates is just normal variation.

This line never really varied between re-sync & training, It was always 24Mb down, no matter what.

Its been a week or so now, and I've never had a speedtest greater than 21mbps. Mostly tops out ~19.5. So I've lost a good 20%+ download speed.

My upload has reduced back to the same as before vectoring as well (approx 1.3Mb up). So not a great 'upgrade' in my case.

wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2026872 1-Jun-2018 12:37

Just a note to say that one of the lines I'm keeping an eye on, which was 27/4.5 before vectoring was enabled, and initially had basically no improvement, has slowly crept up to 33/4.5, and the errors have dropped to basically nothing, so I assume it's ddDLM pulling that line speed up as it's seen the line is cleaner?

A 5 meg downstream improvement at that line speed is not to be sniffed at.

hio77

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#2026894 1-Jun-2018 13:28

Very long likes, eg @Dairyxox's won't really see any gains from vectoring. (not singling you out, my line is also in this gap.)

Likely they have seen very little gains from VDSL, and actually they will be moving from 8b to 17a as part of the upgrade.

Remember ADSL is not vectored, it can't. the support simply isn't there.

8b has a far higher power limit, that bought it inline with ADSL power, where as 17a(and literally all other bandplans) operate at a lower power level.

Lastly, US0 on 17a has a lower PSD mark, this will result in a bit of a drop in sync rates as there is less power over that portion.

As those ADSL customers move to VDSL, likely there will be less crosstalk from them being they then would be protected and not affecting other lines.

For those longer lines though, you will likely see the gains in the following areas:

Reduced latency, G.INP will help here significantly.
Reduced Error rates, Vectoring and G.INP help here.
Increased stability, Less errors on the line obliviously mean less cause for resync. G.INP will also act against noise bursts pretty well to handle any sort of spike that would otherwise cause a resync. Lastly SRA, this will attempt to adjust the line rather than outright drop.
Increased speed, Where crosstalk is reduced on higher specturm areas. (i've seen a fair few lines increase in upstream as US1 is now protected from crosstalk. Upstream sync reduction also helped here.)

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Klathman

300 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2032008 8-Jun-2018 11:20

Are these changes now complete or are there still some outstanding exchanges? We had a outage on Monday morning, which I expected would result in Vectoring being enabled, but it still appears to be off.

I doubt we'll see much change at our distance but I'm still interested to see what does happen.

We're on PTU/H.

hio77

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#2032036 8-Jun-2018 12:06

G.INP and profile hasn't changed, so that DSLAM can't have been flipped yet.

There are many reasons this could be for..

I have not heard anything official to report.

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DS248

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#2038093 15-Jun-2018 10:47

Still interested to know if our cabinet (RDB/M) is going to get the 'upgrade'. We are still on an Ikanos connection :(

Anyone know?

In the meantime some interesting changes. At last a jump in UP speed on 17a.

I noticed the Power up was the highest it has ever been on 17a. It made me realise that Power is the most influential factor for the current settings.

As per the plot below there is a distinct difference in Power for 8b vs 17a. This has been mentioned before but what seemed interesting is that for Power up levels above ~5.2 dbm, the 17a trend seems to align to the 8b trend rather than the trend for 17a below ~5.2 dbm. Not certain if this is real or just due to small sample size. [Note - red lines in the plot are sketched on in Photoshop, not fitted!!]

Would be great if the current power levels can be maintained but experience to date suggests connection power and speeds set by the system are somewhat more chaotic!

Really hard to see why some changes are made. It does not appear to be due to error rates as in the large majority of cases, ours seem low - very low for UP errors.

hio77

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#2038097 15-Jun-2018 10:56

If you still have an ikanos linecard, your not getting vectoring anytime soon unfortunately.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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