Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4
20905 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4107

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1983894 26-Mar-2018 23:42
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

well sky in the UK is a big broadband supplier so since they seem to copy what they do there but with a decade long delay, probably will.





Richard rich.ms

48 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 1983897 26-Mar-2018 23:59
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

rb99:

 

Any idea how people get on this trial ? Too early to say ?

 

 

I'm wondering as well. I'd like to potentially get in on a trial not just for curiosity's sake but for learning and potentially smashing it into TVHeadend.


 
 
 
 


Try Wrike: fast, easy, and efficient project collaboration software
6116 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 209

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1983917 27-Mar-2018 06:36
Send private message quote this post

BarTender:

 

........ Also doesn't indicate how unicast traffic would work as Sky couldn't multicast everything as there isn't enough capacity on the fibre so they would multicast the common channels and unicast the unique ones.......

 

 

Yes this is the big question from my point of view, even though its on a seperate GEM and delivered to a seperate UNI its impacting on the same GPON.

 

As an aside, does anyone have any figures on real 4K streaming rates, looking around the net I dont find much in the way of real info, but undestand 25-30Mb/s, anyone?

 

Cyril


11642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2000

Trusted

  Reply # 1983921 27-Mar-2018 07:03
Send private message quote this post

If Sky migrated fibre users to this means of transmission, and this caused an uptake boost to fibre (I believe there are many in fibre areas that have not bothered) does the NZ fibre network have enough bandwidth for 200,000 watching Sky via LFC at night? 400,000? 600,000?


20905 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4107

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1983923 27-Mar-2018 07:05
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

That is why they are trialing this multicast system, since it would be expensive to even send it as unicast to each customer independantly. Even if they did unicast, it could probably work, the CDNs are well into the providers networks, its only a few megabits per stream and people already all watch other services on ISPs. But sky and online have a bad history of failure to work so any failures would probably not be on the ISP side.





Richard rich.ms

26213 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5802

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1983929 27-Mar-2018 07:16
Send private message quote this post

cyril7:

 

BarTender:

 

........ Also doesn't indicate how unicast traffic would work as Sky couldn't multicast everything as there isn't enough capacity on the fibre so they would multicast the common channels and unicast the unique ones.......

 

 

Yes this is the big question from my point of view, even though its on a seperate GEM and delivered to a seperate UNI its impacting on the same GPON.

 

As an aside, does anyone have any figures on real 4K streaming rates, looking around the net I dont find much in the way of real info, but undestand 25-30Mb/s, anyone?

 

Cyril

 

 

Remember Vodafone (at least to my understanding so I  stand to be corrected) are using around 800Mbps at present for their multicast so that's already a lot of multicast traffic on their network.


cisconz
1175 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 77

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1983944 27-Mar-2018 08:02
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

If Sky migrated fibre users to this means of transmission, and this caused an uptake boost to fibre (I believe there are many in fibre areas that have not bothered) does the NZ fibre network have enough bandwidth for 200,000 watching Sky via LFC at night? 400,000? 600,000?

 

 

 

 

The Key here is multicast - i.e. it uses the same bandwidth if noone is watching it vs a million users watching it.





Hmmmm

11642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2000

Trusted

  Reply # 1983948 27-Mar-2018 08:10
Send private message quote this post

cisconz:

 

tdgeek:

 

If Sky migrated fibre users to this means of transmission, and this caused an uptake boost to fibre (I believe there are many in fibre areas that have not bothered) does the NZ fibre network have enough bandwidth for 200,000 watching Sky via LFC at night? 400,000? 600,000?

 

 

 

 

The Key here is multicast - i.e. it uses the same bandwidth if noone is watching it vs a million users watching it.

 

 

Trying to get my head around this. Say Sky is multicasting and only I am watching. The data is coming down my fibre line from Sky, to me. If a million are watching, surely a million streams are going through fibre to those million homes?


6116 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 209

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1983973 27-Mar-2018 08:26
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

sbiddle:

 

Remember Vodafone (at least to my understanding so I  stand to be corrected) are using around 800Mbps at present for their multicast so that's already a lot of multicast traffic on their network.

 

 

Hi Steve, that seems quite a bit, significantly more than the aggregated Sat traffic, I would have thought more like 200-300Mb/s

 

Cyril


cisconz
1175 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 77

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1983982 27-Mar-2018 08:59
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

Trying to get my head around this. Say Sky is multicasting and only I am watching. The data is coming down my fibre line from Sky, to me. If a million are watching, surely a million streams are going through fibre to those million homes?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_multicast

 

IP multicast is a technique for one-to-many and many-to-many real-time communication over an IP infrastructure in a network. It scales to a larger receiver population by requiring neither prior knowledge of a receiver's identity nor prior knowledge of the number of receivers. Multicast uses network infrastructure efficiently by requiring the source to send a packet only once, even if it needs to be delivered to a large number of receivers. The nodes in the network (typically network switches and routers) take care of replicating the packet to reach multiple receivers such that messages are sent over each link of the network only once.

 

 

So yes, there are streams going everywhere, however each section of the path the traffic takes, only has 1 set of multicast streams (As Steve says above, about 800 Mbps for Vodafone TV at present)

 

This means there is no backhaul with 100 Tbps being sent, the backhaul only requires the 800 Mbps





Hmmmm

11642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2000

Trusted

  Reply # 1983985 27-Mar-2018 09:05
Send private message quote this post

cisconz:

 

tdgeek:

 

cisconz:

 

tdgeek:

 

If Sky migrated fibre users to this means of transmission, and this caused an uptake boost to fibre (I believe there are many in fibre areas that have not bothered) does the NZ fibre network have enough bandwidth for 200,000 watching Sky via LFC at night? 400,000? 600,000?

 

 

 

 

The Key here is multicast - i.e. it uses the same bandwidth if noone is watching it vs a million users watching it.

 

 

Trying to get my head around this. Say Sky is multicasting and only I am watching. The data is coming down my fibre line from Sky, to me. If a million are watching, surely a million streams are going through fibre to those million homes?

 

 

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_multicast

 

IP multicast is a technique for one-to-many and many-to-many real-time communication over an IP infrastructure in a network. It scales to a larger receiver population by requiring neither prior knowledge of a receiver's identity nor prior knowledge of the number of receivers. Multicast uses network infrastructure efficiently by requiring the source to send a packet only once, even if it needs to be delivered to a large number of receivers. The nodes in the network (typically network switches and routers) take care of replicating the packet to reach multiple receivers such that messages are sent over each link of the network only once.

 

 

Ok, so Sky sends one transmission of a linear show. I assume this one transmission goes to one location inside the LFC's network?  From there, if there are 300,000 watchers, we now have 300,000 streams using bandwidth. So while Sky does not need gazillions of bandwidth, at some point the fibre network still does. 


6116 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 209

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1984041 27-Mar-2018 09:26
Send private message quote this post

Hi, tdgeek, you have the logic reversed. If there are say 60 streams, which means 60 linear programs in motion, this is pushed out to all ends of the network, well the OLT's I presume, and the last leg pushes a currently selected stream to your STB/device. So all programs are pushed on the network, but only once, not 300,000x

 

Cyril


974 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 148

UberGroup

  Reply # 1984046 27-Mar-2018 09:34
Send private message quote this post




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

cisconz
1175 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 77

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1984047 27-Mar-2018 09:35
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

Ok, so Sky sends one transmission of a linear show. I assume this one transmission goes to one location inside the LFC's network?  From there, if there are 300,000 watchers, we now have 300,000 streams using bandwidth. So while Sky does not need gazillions of bandwidth, at some point the fibre network still does. 

 

 

Not really, Chrous's Network includes nodes, so in a highly simplified example you might have 30 subscribers on a node, and then 20 nodes in the trial (600 Subs).

 

Because each part of the network only requires 1 stream, the incoming transmission will be sent to each of the 20 nodes once, then the nodes will rebroadcast it to each of the 30 subs for that node.

 

So the Core as such in this small example, is only sending it 20 times, down 20 independent links, servicing 600 Subscribers.

 

Because none of the bandwidth is cumulative, the overhead is quite small (In terms of pipe size).





Hmmmm

11642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2000

Trusted

  Reply # 1984147 27-Mar-2018 11:09
Send private message quote this post

cyril7:

 

Hi, tdgeek, you have the logic reversed. If there are say 60 streams, which means 60 linear programs in motion, this is pushed out to all ends of the network, well the OLT's I presume, and the last leg pushes a currently selected stream to your STB/device. So all programs are pushed on the network, but only once, not 300,000x

 

Cyril

 

 

Hi Cyril

 

Thanks. I get that Sky isn't sending 300,000 streams, but when 300,000 are watching The Bachelor  :-) there must be 300,000 streams to all our homes? Not from Sky but where do those 300,000 streams send from?


1 | 2 | 3 | 4
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

TCF and Telcos Toughen Up on Scam Callers
Posted 23-Apr-2018 09:39


Amazon launches the International Shopping Experience in the Amazon Shopping App
Posted 19-Apr-2018 08:38


Spark New Zealand and TVNZ to bring coverage of Rugby World Cup 2019
Posted 16-Apr-2018 06:55


How Google can seize Microsoft Office crown
Posted 14-Apr-2018 11:08


How back office transformation drives IRD efficiency
Posted 12-Apr-2018 21:15


iPod laws in a smartphone world: will we ever get copyright right?
Posted 12-Apr-2018 21:13


Lightbox service using big data and analytics to learn more about customers
Posted 9-Apr-2018 12:11


111 mobile caller location extended to iOS
Posted 6-Apr-2018 13:50


Huawei announces the HUAWEI P20 series
Posted 29-Mar-2018 11:41


Symantec Internet Security Threat Report shows increased endpoint technology risks
Posted 26-Mar-2018 18:29


Spark switches on long-range IoT network across New Zealand
Posted 26-Mar-2018 18:22


Stuff Pix enters streaming video market
Posted 21-Mar-2018 09:18


Windows no longer Microsoft’s main focus
Posted 13-Mar-2018 07:47


Why phone makers are obsessed with cameras
Posted 11-Mar-2018 12:25


New Zealand Adopts International Open Data Charter
Posted 3-Mar-2018 12:48



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.