Fibre break responsibility?

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Hashtagtruth

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#2033217 10-Jun-2018 19:08

My Copper lead in cable from the pillar was only buried around 30 CM (Spade length) Deep in the ground and it's been fine for over 14 years only needed to be repaired once when watercare damaged it fixing our water meter. Ours wasn't in a conduit it was direct buried. We have fibre now which was done the same way I told Chorus I wanted 20mil ducting they laughed and said no way. they said they could do it but it would be a extra cost. so they did the spade in the grass and wiggle technique to lay the microduct. they said our ground was really hard and they wouldn't have been able to do the trench anyway. I did get them to install a 2 foot long green conduit down by the water meter just in case anyone has to dig there again. they told me the microduct is really strong and you don't need conduit they said you can't break it with a spade it just bounces and it would take a digger to break it. I actually have some Microduct in the garage cause I wanted to see just how strong it was.

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sparkz25

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#2033241 10-Jun-2018 19:30

Hashtagtruth:

I told Chorus I wanted 20mil ducting they laughed and said no way. they said they would do it but it would be a extra cost. so they did they spade in the grass and wiggle technique. they said our ground was really hard and they wouldn't have been able to do the trench anyway.

classic example of lazyness! if the ground was too hard then why did they bother using a spade?

A trencher is designed to dig hard ground!

The whole idea for the installation of ducting is for future proofing as well as mechanical protection, you can pull a cable through a duct but you cant through dirt!

sounds like you have a real bunch if idiots on your job!

hio77

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#2033379 10-Jun-2018 21:55

toejam316:

Just wanted to pick on that specific line - it's not that the installers are lazy and incompetent, they're simply working to the standard they're paid for. With the remuneration available at the moment for these installations, the only way to turn a profit is to run things quick and dirty. It's a sad knock on from the contract Chorus has put in place with the lowest bidder service companies, and why so many like myself who're trained technicians in an industry that seems to have been critically understaffed, to the level that routinely foreigners immigrate to NZ to work in the industry, cannot and will not re enter the field.

Suffice to say that the most recent offer tabled to me prior to my exiting that part of the industry would've left me at the mercy of luck as to if I'd make more than minimum wage, based on the retainer offered and the hours required. Don't blame the workers, blame the ones setting the conditions.

so true, It really is sad when you find out how bad the conditions are on the field tech side.

as someone who sits on the RSP side and sees the outfall of this, it's just painful to watch. Every day you see quick fixes happen because that's all that can be afforded rather than the one of proper fix.

in many cases, this works ok but it's hardly ideal.

if pay conditions were better, i may just have still been seeing @toejam316 sign-off notes - Don't think i caught any cases from you that smelt off :)

Last thing i have to say is, try to be a little nice to @chorusnz, the poor guy (ok more than one touches the account, but it's mainly ^Mike.) only has so much control over things.

I'm sure every tagged rep on gz has had a time that they go, why do i even open myself up to assist here! - There can be some really sticky and crappy situations when folk forget we are just people :)

That's not to say i don't agree with how fibre installs are going, i'd love if they were in a state that damage less likely...

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chevrolux

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#2033409 10-Jun-2018 22:51

Yea I don't think laziness is a fair word.

The fact is the techs get paid next to nothing. And plenty even work for contractors who don't care about NZs labour laws. Their working conditions are borderline illegal the way their hourly rates and over time work.

And fully agree with Hio... The Chorus guys who take the time to post on here are the ones actually worth talking to. The issue of garbage installs are certainly not Chorus specific - just 70% of them are.

Edit: Just to add, skilled techs are the issue too. Some of them only even touch a fibre for the first time when they are out in the field. The learning they do is just health and safety related.

mattwnz

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#2033412 10-Jun-2018 22:59

sbiddle:

While you can describe the issue as a Chorus one the reality is it's both Chorus and the LFCs. Consumers would baulk at paying $1500 - $3000 for their install if billed, yet this cost has to be absorbed which is turn puts downward pressure on installs.

Apparently the install cost is paid for by the government as per https://support.stuff-fibre.co.nz/hc/en-us/articles/115003476027-How-much-does-it-cost-to-install-Fibre-

It was all about getting people to sign up to fibre, and as quickly as possible. If people were paying 1500-3000 to install it, people simply wouldn't do it, and would stick to ADSL. So it wasn't really an option.

sbiddle

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#2033464 11-Jun-2018 07:27

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

While you can describe the issue as a Chorus one the reality is it's both Chorus and the LFCs. Consumers would baulk at paying $1500 - $3000 for their install if billed, yet this cost has to be absorbed which is turn puts downward pressure on installs.

Apparently the install cost is paid for by the government as per https://support.stuff-fibre.co.nz/hc/en-us/articles/115003476027-How-much-does-it-cost-to-install-Fibre-

That's a Trump level alt fact which is not entirely accurate.

The UFB funding models differ between Chorus and the LFCs, but in effect Chorus fully fund UFB installs from their own pocket.

Hashtagtruth

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#2033500 11-Jun-2018 09:29

I just think myself lucky I live in New Zealand and not Australia, One of my friends there said they have to pay for fibre to be installed to there home they don't do the entire street like they do here and the government don't pay for it. Back on topic though. Chorus told me that if the fibre gets damaged doing any gardening they will fix it cover the cost themselves as they own the network up to the ONT.

Chorusnz

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#2033720 11-Jun-2018 15:10

sparkz25:

@chorusnz i think you actually need to go back and look at what is going on in your company, this crap happens every day because your scopers and techs have no idea what they are doing, i have been to multiple sites where you have been and installed fiber and the workmanship is so crap that you can pull the fiber out of the ground with your bare hands as its only burred a spade depth, never mind your requirements on depth and how there should be a duct installed, its like the techs dont give a toss and they know that nothings going to happen because you dont check their work!

my sister and her partner have requested fiber at their property, and the scoper has been out and has a look at it and the install that he as said that they will do is the dumbest and most stupidest path/route that he reccomends to install this micro crap of a duct,

now tell me they arent serious and arent going to do it this way, this is just pure lasyness and stupidity at play here, they will end up in the same situation as the op in this thread if the neighbor decides to remove the fence or repair the fence. i mean look at this picture.

how dumb is that, you can clearly see that there is a grass verge up the driveway on the right hand side of the property, but still you itiots want to cut the concrete not once but twice just so you can clip that crap to the fence.

come on chorus, your suposed to be building a network that will last years not minutes!

you need to employ people that know how to use tools and a brain for that fact, not some paper shuffler that has a claim to fame that thinks they are the know all the tricks of the trade and claims to be something that they are not!

@sparkz25 in regards to the install where we’ve opted to cut across the driveway, we also use beforeUdig to check for existing power, gas and water services before making a design. Slot trenching through a hard surface like that is not worth the time saved by clipping to a fence (which by the looks of it we would have to drill through anyway to pass the cable through the posts as Fibre will not bend round them well). As such, there is likely a very good reason our designers have decided to build the network this way, like an existing power or gas asset. If you would like to PM us with the full address we would be happy to look into the details with you.

Hashtagtruth:

@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

@Hashtagtruth while we do prefer if you contact us regarding moving any assets, what you do on your property is your own choice. Providing that you take due care, its ok for you to move it yourself. Just be aware that if you do cause damage to the Fibre which requires a tech to repair you will need to pay for the fix.

^Richard

hio77

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#2040629 19-Jun-2018 16:43

Doing some digging on an unrelated thing, and came across a fault where the fibre was cut "by rats chewing through optical"

Is a rat seriously strong enough to chew through a spade-proof cable?!

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chevrolux

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#2040633 19-Jun-2018 16:49

hio77:

Doing some digging on an unrelated thing, and came across a fault where the fibre was cut "by rats chewing through optical"

Is a rat seriously strong enough to chew through a spade-proof cable?!

Must have been a teenage mutant ninja rat... cos we all know that microduct is super strong.

...seriously though, it's amazing what rats can chew through! Back when we were doing the SNUP jobs we put serious work in to rodent proofing cables under buildings and even their entries up in to walls etc. At the time it seemed silly, but since then I've seen it happen more than you would think.

hio77

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#2040641 19-Jun-2018 17:01

chevrolux:

Must have been a teenage mutant ninja rat... cos we all know that microduct is super strong.

...seriously though, it's amazing what rats can chew through! Back when we were doing the SNUP jobs we put serious work in to rodent proofing cables under buildings and even their entries up in to walls etc. At the time it seemed silly, but since then I've seen it happen more than you would think.

Bloody things, they are a risk to our infrastructure! Eradication!!

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