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  Reply # 2070758 9-Aug-2018 15:31
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mattwnz:[snip]

 

Well it was free, so you do get what you paid for.

 

 

But it's simply not free. The taxpayer is paying for this, and should get the quality that is paid for.


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  Reply # 2070791 9-Aug-2018 15:45
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RunningMan:

 

mattwnz:[snip]

 

Well it was free, so you do get what you paid for.

 

 

But it's simply not free. The taxpayer is paying for this, and should get the quality that is paid for.

 

 

Exactly. And even if the subsidy is small and doesn't cover complexity at all, thats what has been made available and has no relevance to a basic install. I observed a Chorusguy spend 7 hours yesterday doing me neighbours house - triple pole aerial span, about 55m of total cabling - in 60km/h northerlies by himself. Nothing complex, just a LOT of fiddlework to get from A to B.

 

This install is beyond stupid and borders on "I genuinely dont know what im doing but hey who gives a". Its going to cost Chorus - which means taxpayers and shareholders - upwards of $3k to repair this botch up of a clustermess.

 

Sad!





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  Reply # 2070799 9-Aug-2018 16:04
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RunningMan:

 

mattwnz:[snip]

 

Well it was free, so you do get what you paid for.

 

 

But it's simply not free. The taxpayer is paying for this, and should get the quality that is paid for.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree. Although I am, not sure if the subsidy covers all that much,  when you factor in all the costs associated with installs, and the middle management, compliance, cones, and more cones etc. Also not sure if it is inflation adjusted. Initially the installs appeared to be far more comprehensive, with a lot more full trenching etc. Don't they normally say though, if you want a more comprehensive install, that there may be some cost involved? I recall reading this somewhere on the chorus website, including if the ONT is a distance away from the router.


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  Reply # 2070827 9-Aug-2018 16:38
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It isn't important how much the LFC gets paid per installation - they have a contract that is agreeable to them to complete installs for that price. The install should be completed to a reasonable standard - whatever standard the contract stipulates.


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  Reply # 2070910 9-Aug-2018 20:11
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RunningMan:

 

It isn't important how much the LFC gets paid per installation - they have a contract that is agreeable to them to complete installs for that price. The install should be completed to a reasonable standard - whatever standard the contract stipulates.

 

 

But that is the whole issue. It is SO IMPORTANT what the LFC gets paid per installation. What the LFC gets paid per install is why we are seeing the caliber of installs that we see. This is my biggest issue with the whole UFB project.

 

We (New Zealand), have, once again, completely under estimated what a public infrastructure project like this will truly cost and will end up with broken infrastructure in 10 years time that will be kept up to the very minimum standard by a private company.

 

I remember having this conversation with my Dad a long time ago - I was a 20-year-old linesman working on the copper network, provisioning and basic faults. John Key was talking about fibre to the home. The conversation was basically, that's crazy! It's an insane amount of work to get a fibre to every home in the country!

 

However, a few years later, the company I worked for did the first FTTH installs in our area (Palmerston North). They were high quality installs. Underground fibre was in conduit (20mm Telecom, or some in older 15mm water ducts where possible). External fibre was in electrical conduit. Even in ceiling spaces and under floor, the fibre was either in conduit, or clipped safely along a joist. Commercial installs were even better, external runs in public spaces were in galv pipe for vandal protection! We were paid for our time and materials.

 

I personally moved on to different work pretty soon after that started. But still saw the 'fibre boys' daily.

 

All of sudden, they are no longer using conduit on even externally exposed fibre, and along came the fabled "microduct". Now they were being paid codes for each job as Chorus had severely pulled back on what they paid per job.

 

My thought process with this is the classic, big corporate low-balls an offer on a huge contract and then realises they low-balled too much so have to save their own ass to keep the shareholders happy.

 

And what do we end up with? As above, broken infrastructure that in 10 years time will be kept up to the very minimum standard by a private company. To the point where their (Chorus') codes are so little, contractors are paying their workers illegally, working ridiculous hours, and just plain employing any willing regardless of skill.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely pleased NZ has made this move to roll out fibre as much as we have. It has literally allowed my livelihood to grow at an exponential rate because businesses now have access to this amazing network and I am able to leverage that for the product I sell. But I can't help but feel it's just another Auckland Harbor bridge or kapiti expressway (even Transmission Gully!) - not in terms of traffic ability, but in terms of upkeep and quality.


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  Reply # 2070912 9-Aug-2018 20:21
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Chevrolux, how much would you say each of your early installs reasonably cost to do? real world to the company you worked for.





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  Reply # 2070930 9-Aug-2018 21:12
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So for residential, it was one install a day with a two person gang. So retail rates, would be around $1500 labour costs and maybe $2-300 for consumables. Emphasis on "retail".


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Reply # 2070934 9-Aug-2018 21:17
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chevrolux:

 

So for residential, it was one install a day with a two person gang. So retail rates, would be around $1500 labour costs and maybe $2-300 for consumables. Emphasis on "retail".

 

 

yep sounds about right


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  Reply # 2070939 9-Aug-2018 21:30
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Yep that’s what I would have estimated, even going up to $2500.

Imagine presenting that business case to treasury.....




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  Reply # 2070940 9-Aug-2018 21:31
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It would be no fibre for you Sir

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  Reply # 2070946 9-Aug-2018 21:49
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antoniosk: Yep that’s what I would have estimated, even going up to $2500.

Imagine presenting that business case to treasury.....


Retail though right?

So the actual cost for the trained installer would be (on the high end) perhaps 25/hour.
And the reality was when we got in the swing of things it was more than one install a day.

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  Reply # 2071287 10-Aug-2018 13:36
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allio:

 

sparkz25:

 

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This is incredible.

 

 

I'd call it a "quick disconnect" as a safety feature for anyone strung up by the loose cables.





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  Reply # 2071438 10-Aug-2018 16:34
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lucky015:

 

allio:

 

sparkz25:

 

Click to see full size

 

 

This is incredible.

 

 

I'd call it a "quick disconnect" as a safety feature for anyone strung up by the loose cables.

 

 

 

 

yeah well it could be the emergency break lol, its a shame this install was done in a work place, maybe they need to go out with the boys on the tools for a few weeks to get a idea on how to install cables and cable support systems like i did in my apprenticeship many years ago

 

 


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  Reply # 2071439 10-Aug-2018 16:36
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sparkz25:

 

yeah well it could be the emergency break lol, its a shame this install was done in a work place, maybe they need to go out with the boys on the tools for a few weeks to get a idea on how to install cables and cable support systems like i did in my apprenticeship many years ago

 

 

Business install too? that's rough...





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 2071457 10-Aug-2018 17:15
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Got to remember what Chorus are getting in addition to install subsidy and thats a monopoly. A large chunk of each monthly Fibre invoice goes directly to Chorus. 

 

I would assume that at some future point this monopoly will get broken by the Govt.


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