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319 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2080514 28-Aug-2018 23:47
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And to everyone else constructively commenting, thank you for taking the time.  For those of you who tell me to just move - that is not a helpful, constructive, considerate or practical answer. The business is farm-based. We can't move it. There would be no business if we did.

 

There is no fibre - I'd spend $10k without batting an eye if I could get it (not that I should have to pay that!). 

 

We have explored and do use fixed wireless (802.11 based), but it has not proven robust and reliable enough and it requires significant on-going monitoring/maintenance and will go down unexpectedly. We see inconsistent throughput, latency spikes that break things like skype and accessing cloud-based order processing and accounting packages.  Furthermore, it is affected by rain fade and power outages and that's why we have to to pay for TWO connections. I use traffic shaping to combine the two connections. The ADSL is used to reduce the load on the fixed wireless and to allow our software systems to keep running during business hours when the fixed wireless fails entirely and/or can't keep up. When both go down I have staff that simply cannot do their jobs and have to look for odd projects while they wait for the internet to come back.  It's demoralizing and frustrating for them as well.

 

Vodafone and Spark do not have adequate coverage. We get 1 bar of 4G/LTE coverage at best and only in certain spots. So that is not an option.

 

The ADSL was enough to limp along when it was 7mbps and I had hopes that perhaps someday they would shorten the loop or improve the infrastructure so that we could get VDSL.  If I could get a stable 10/5mbps connection over copper/fiber life would be great.  Instead we have gone backwards down to <4mbps (usable) and now it seems like they are considering abandoning the infrastructure. 

 

I would have thought there was some government legislated requirement for them to provide some basic level of service.

 

From what you are all saying here it sounds like Chorus could just decide it is too expensive and cut us off entirely.  Maybe that's their hope - that we just go away.  And I would, if I had other practical options.

 

 


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  Reply # 2080517 29-Aug-2018 00:22
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Satellite Internet maybe?

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=233534

Keep the ADSL connection for things like software updates and cloud backups. As a means of keeping data usage on the satellite connection in check.





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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2080518 29-Aug-2018 00:28
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i think there is a min requirement for a copper line like 128k/256k

 

i remember reading something about it when the government wanted to unbundling the local loop

 

and they wanted a all nz to be a min of 10mbps before a date





 

 

 


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  Reply # 2080521 29-Aug-2018 01:23
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spacedog:

 

You can stop reading here if you like...if you are interested in the rest of my situation then read on.

 

 

No friend around within 15km to have *this*?

 

No, it's not too expensive after a closer look.





No backup, no pity. Anyway, RAID isn't one.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2080529 29-Aug-2018 07:09
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biggal:

 

i think there is a min requirement for a copper line like 128k/256k

 

i remember reading something about it when the government wanted to unbundling the local loop

 

and they wanted a all nz to be a min of 10mbps before a date

 

 

Would love to see anything if you can find it.  I could live with 10mbps down.  Really need a minimum of 3mbps upstream, though.


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  Reply # 2080532 29-Aug-2018 07:16
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spacedog:

 

We have explored and do use fixed wireless (802.11 based), but it has not proven robust and reliable enough and it requires significant on-going monitoring/maintenance and will go down unexpectedly. We see inconsistent throughput, latency spikes that break things like skype and accessing cloud-based order processing and accounting packages. 

 

 

 

 

There are literally tens of thousands of people in NZ relying on 802.11 connections these days as their primary connections - both residential and business.

 

If you're seeing those sorts of issues it's clearly a solution installed by somebody with no knowledge of what they're doing. 802.11 wireless by itself can't break Skype or cloud based services. A poor network can.

 

The technology these days can even deliver a rock solid 100Mbps connection which is something that wasn't possible even a few years ago.

 

If you chose to ignore potential options based on your views of a technology then the reality is there may not be many other options for you, because along with 4G based solutions 802.11 based solutions make up the bulk of the RBI2 based solutions out there.

 

 


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  Reply # 2080534 29-Aug-2018 07:24
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spacedog:

 

Vodafone and Spark do not have adequate coverage. We get 1 bar of 4G/LTE coverage at best and only in certain spots. So that is not an option.

 

 

@spacedog 1 bar 4G can deliver great performance think what adding a high gain antenna and pointing it in the direction of the serving cell will do?

 

Bars really mean nothing in the 4G world

 

So you have plenty of options to get far better broadband

 

John





Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days



319 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2080536 29-Aug-2018 07:35
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Linux:

 

spacedog:

 

Vodafone and Spark do not have adequate coverage. We get 1 bar of 4G/LTE coverage at best and only in certain spots. So that is not an option.

 

 

@spacedog 1 bar 4G can deliver great performance think what adding a high gain antenna and pointing it in the direction of the serving cell will do?

 

Bars really mean nothing in the 4G world

 

So you have plenty of options to get far better broadband

 

John

 

 

This option was already escalated to and reviewed by technicians at Vodafone and deemed to not be an option after reviewing the tower coverage and maps and location. Only theoretical solution is to get way up the hill and build our own solar powered repeater and then have to transmit the link down to the site.  However, power requirements to run that amount of kit is going to require quite a bit of solar and quite a bit of battery banking. I've looked into this.  It's a $10k project with uncertain results. I'd rather Chorus fix our copper and restore it back to the service it was previously at.  Hell, I'd even give $10k towards Chorus fixing their infrastructure and getting reliable fixed line service.  I might even be able to convince the neighbors to chip and subsidize whatever the costs are to get Chorus to do some kind of loops shortening infrastructure upgrade.  I have tried to make headway on finding ANYONE to talk to about a community/crowd subsidized infrastructure upgrade because I know we are not the only ones suffering.  Can't get anywhere on that either...


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  Reply # 2080537 29-Aug-2018 07:35
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@spacedog - wireless P2P has come a long way likely since you've tried it. I've done many installs for businesses and it is very reliable.

 

Maybe start on one of their "cheap" plans - it is only $99 for an install. If you're concerned you could go for a UniFi network (will cost a bit) with failover back to ADSL if things get bad but I honestly don't think it would: https://www.gulfinternet.nz/cheapest-plan 







319 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2080538 29-Aug-2018 07:41
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michaelmurfy:

 

@spacedog - wireless P2P has come a long way likely since you've tried it. I've done many installs for businesses and it is very reliable.

 

Maybe start on one of their "cheap" plans - it is only $99 for an install. If you're concerned you could go for a UniFi network (will cost a bit) with failover back to ADSL if things get bad but I honestly don't think it would: https://www.gulfinternet.nz/cheapest-plan 

 

 

As I said in my previous post, we have already gone down that path and done exactly what you have suggested.

 

The problems with all these fixed wireless solutions are they require line-of-sight, a high-quality connection at the other end, a willing participant/partner, and stable power. That's really difficult. We already had to build solar powered link repeater ontop of a hill just to get the fixed wireless that we currently use that I described before. And that fixed wireless is down again since I was writing updates last night.

 

At this exact moment we are already in failover to ADSL, I have people coming into work that will need internet to do their job and this is all I have:

 

 

Also, here's the modem stats for anyone interested. And yes, before anyone asks I have already done the SNR tweaking stuff by making sure I have a Broadcom chipset modem (I've bought and then had to resell just about every ADSL modem+chipset combo on the market to eek out performance. Broadcom chipsets are the only ones that can sustain a decent connection)

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2080541 29-Aug-2018 07:51
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https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/ambitious-target-set-rural-broadband

This is the government target of getting everyone 10Mbps by 2025. It's an aspirational goal, not an enforceable requirement.



319 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2080542 29-Aug-2018 07:51
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sbiddle:

 

spacedog:

 

We have explored and do use fixed wireless (802.11 based), but it has not proven robust and reliable enough and it requires significant on-going monitoring/maintenance and will go down unexpectedly. We see inconsistent throughput, latency spikes that break things like skype and accessing cloud-based order processing and accounting packages. 

 

 

 

 

There are literally tens of thousands of people in NZ relying on 802.11 connections these days as their primary connections - both residential and business.

 

If you're seeing those sorts of issues it's clearly a solution installed by somebody with no knowledge of what they're doing. 802.11 wireless by itself can't break Skype or cloud based services. A poor network can.

 

The technology these days can even deliver a rock solid 100Mbps connection which is something that wasn't possible even a few years ago.

 

If you chose to ignore potential options based on your views of a technology then the reality is there may not be many other options for you, because along with 4G based solutions 802.11 based solutions make up the bulk of the RBI2 based solutions out there.

 

 

 

 

Already doing this and have been involved with it for over a decade. It's nowhere near as rock solid on Waiheke as you think it is. When it works it's great. It's not rock solid by any stretch.

 

I also don't appreciate being told I'm ignoring potential options.  Read my posts. I've gone crazy lengths on all of this. I'm feeling pretty beaten up on this thread because people don't seem to like the answers I'm giving and are suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about.  I started working in IT and building corporate networks since the 1990s. I'm not some novice end user who doesn't understand how networking infrastructure and telecom works

 

And frankly, I'm stunned that everyone here seems to be so ready to defend the lack of fixed line infrastructure or the willingness of Chorus to repair or upgrade their network and spend more time attacking my efforts or perceived lack of efforts


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  Reply # 2080598 29-Aug-2018 08:55
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I think you have to face the fact that not enough people live out Gordons Road way for Chorus to spend what would be a fortune getting fibre out there. Not saying that in a 'You have to suck it up' way, just the way that a large corporate like them will be looking at it - ROI would never happen for them.

 

I know a couple of people living out that way that have Wireless, through FullTilt I think (could be wrong, could be another Waiheke WISP). They are pretty happy with it, both in price and performance.

 

I take it you are in a 'hole' or coverage blackspot with them?

 

Unfortunately for you, you are getting above the 'minimum' and the service is connected. Maybe when Omiha gets UFB, copper contention on the cabinet you are connected to will go down, and your performance will go up.

 

Do you have a noisy landline? I used to find (before I went to UFB- in Ostend) that calling them up and complaining about a noisy static-ey landline got things fixed a lot faster than complaining about broadband speed being down.


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Wannabe Geek
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Gulf Internet

  Reply # 2080600 29-Aug-2018 08:57
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Hi spacedog, that sounds really painful. Not sure where exactly in Rocky Bay you are but we have a few business customers out that way.

You're not alone in trying to run a business in an area not served by Fibre. Destiny Bay, Man o' War Farm and The Mudbrick are all in the same position and they all use us for VoIP which may give you an idea of the stability we are able to provide. Unfortunately wireless signal can never be guaranteed but we do our best and we have good customer support in place for when things don't go as planned. If you would like, I'd be happy to set up a free no obligation consult at your location to assess what options we would be able to provide.
Cheers from the team at Gulf Internet






www.gulfinternet.co.nz.

 

info@gulfinternet.co.nz

 

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  Reply # 2080605 29-Aug-2018 09:06
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spacedog:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

@spacedog - wireless P2P has come a long way likely since you've tried it. I've done many installs for businesses and it is very reliable.

 

Maybe start on one of their "cheap" plans - it is only $99 for an install. If you're concerned you could go for a UniFi network (will cost a bit) with failover back to ADSL if things get bad but I honestly don't think it would: https://www.gulfinternet.nz/cheapest-plan 

 

 

As I said in my previous post, we have already gone down that path and done exactly what you have suggested.

 

The problems with all these fixed wireless solutions are they require line-of-sight, a high-quality connection at the other end, a willing participant/partner, and stable power. That's really difficult. We already had to build solar powered link repeater ontop of a hill just to get the fixed wireless that we currently use that I described before. And that fixed wireless is down again since I was writing updates last night.

 

 

I suggest you read this thread: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=229178

 

To me it sounds like whoever did your wireless / wireless broadband installation has done a poor job.

 

So as per many others who have posted in this thread. What you are looking to achieve is do-able. You just need to find a decent installer that knows what they are doing and install and align proper gear that it fit for purpose.

 

Or rent an office somewhere that does get good broadband and work from there.

 

Or pay for Satellite Broadband as that will give you better speeds, but it won't be as cheap.

 

It's not Chorus's / Spark / Vodafone or anyone other than your own responsibility to sort out your broadband if you choose to run your business in the middle of nowhere.






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