Fibre MAX Naked Broadband - what speed should I expect?

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Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Fibre MAX Naked Broadband - what speed should I expect?

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BarTender

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#2147783 19-Dec-2018 13:50

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hio77:

BarTender:

It is a scarce resource, if everyone across the country was doing it then Unlimited plans would immediately disappear and 500GB/1TB/2TB plans would come out.

Being intentionally wasteful is the reason why we can't have nice things.

Although in the day of 4K streaming, for a larger household it's quite easy to do well over that.. bring on 10gpon and 100g links everywhere ;)

But that will most likely come from a local CDN, so 10gpon is a waste of time IMHO. If anyone needs anything faster than 1GB then they should get dark fibre, and it would never be necessary in the residential environment IMHO.

and

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BMarquis

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#2147804 19-Dec-2018 14:21

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BarTender:

hio77:

BarTender:

It is a scarce resource, if everyone across the country was doing it then Unlimited plans would immediately disappear and 500GB/1TB/2TB plans would come out.

Being intentionally wasteful is the reason why we can't have nice things.

Although in the day of 4K streaming, for a larger household it's quite easy to do well over that.. bring on 10gpon and 100g links everywhere ;)

But that will most likely come from a local CDN, so 10gpon is a waste of time IMHO. If anyone needs anything faster than 1GB then they should get dark fibre, and it would never be necessary in the residential environment IMHO.

I know you have been out of the game for a while, but 1GB is not much these days. barely more than a CD's worth of storage ;)

If you think that the answer for peak speeds greater than 1gbps is dark fibre, you're crazy. Maybe you should have stayed on VDSL...

10gpon is about more than just peak speed (i.e 10gbps services) - while it is an efficient way to deliver super high speeds, It also allows more users to peak higher in busy hour. Remember, it's a shared medium.
You *NEVER* want the network to be a limiting factor for innovation. 10gbps is about keeping ahead of the game.

SpartanVXL

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#2147871 19-Dec-2018 15:20

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I am honestly confused. Any of us with over 160Mb/s can blow through 100MB in 5 seconds let alone 5 minutes. People using US based end-points to stream US netflix would be doing similar amounts of data as OP is but almost nobody bats an eye because it's an expected use case. But OP shouldn't be doing it to test his line against US?

Pretty much every other day or four if I open up Steam I'll have 50GB worth of downloads queued. It'll finish in around half an hour or so, am I doing a bad thing by letting it use as much bandwidth as it can on a Gbit line?

Data use is not a resource. Bandwidth is, especially with contention but you don't enforce it with data caps. I thought we left that behind half a decade ago.

Jase2985

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#2147901 19-Dec-2018 15:55

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SpartanVXL: I am honestly confused. Any of us with over 160Mb/s can blow through 100MB in 5 seconds let alone 5 minutes. People using US based end-points to stream US netflix would be doing similar amounts of data as OP is but almost nobody bats an eye because it's an expected use case. But OP shouldn't be doing it to test his line against US? Pretty much every other day or four if I open up Steam I'll have 50GB worth of downloads queued. It'll finish in around half an hour or so, am I doing a bad thing by letting it use as much bandwidth as it can on a Gbit line? Data use is not a resource. Bandwidth is, especially with contention but you don't enforce it with data caps. I thought we left that behind half a decade ago.

because that on top of normal use.

BarTender

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#2147906 19-Dec-2018 16:00

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BMarquis: I know you have been out of the game for a while, but 1GB is not much these days. barely more than a CD's worth of storage ;)

If you think that the answer for peak speeds greater than 1gbps is dark fibre, you're crazy. Maybe you should have stayed on VDSL...

10gpon is about more than just peak speed (i.e 10gbps services) - while it is an efficient way to deliver super high speeds, It also allows more users to peak higher in busy hour. Remember, it's a shared medium.
You *NEVER* want the network to be a limiting factor for innovation. 10gbps is about keeping ahead of the game.

I'm going to need some ointment for that burn... :)

So to understand this correctly pretty soon 10gbps ONTs are going to become standard for all new installs including residential ones as it's part of staying ahead of the game.

I also assume the optical splitter would be the same so it would only require a swap out of the OLT SFP and new ONTs to deliver that service.

But I agree in principal that staying with the latest technology is good to prevent being a limiting factor, but I would have thought the backhaul and handovers were more of an issue rather than client access.

What was the percentage of customers on 1gbps plans vs 100mbit again?

and

yitz

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#2147943 19-Dec-2018 16:08

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Mbps is the new kbps :)

50 Mbps is dial-up speeds

100/20 is like being on Jetstart

SpartanVXL

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#2147945 19-Dec-2018 16:12

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Jase2985:
SpartanVXL: I am honestly confused. Any of us with over 160Mb/s can blow through 100MB in 5 seconds let alone 5 minutes. People using US based end-points to stream US netflix would be doing similar amounts of data as OP is but almost nobody bats an eye because it's an expected use case. But OP shouldn't be doing it to test his line against US? Pretty much every other day or four if I open up Steam I'll have 50GB worth of downloads queued. It'll finish in around half an hour or so, am I doing a bad thing by letting it use as much bandwidth as it can on a Gbit line? Data use is not a resource. Bandwidth is, especially with contention but you don't enforce it with data caps. I thought we left that behind half a decade ago.

because that on top of normal use.

Dude has an almost Gbit line. At 100Mb/s hes done in under 10 seconds leaving 290 seconds of time where that bandwidth is not used. He's not maxing 900Mb/s all day everyday. If other people on that capacity needed bandwidth too I'd hope it would be shared equally.

I still don't get it, a speedtest does effectively the same thing does it not? He's just doing it repeatedly to get performance data. What's wrong with that? It's provisioned as such and hes paying for it. Why is it a waste if nobody else is needed it? It doesn't suffer wear and tear like roads, or neither is there a limit of 'bytes' going over a line before something goes wrong. Contention is always an issue but it can be alleviated and improved.

cyril7

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#2147946 19-Dec-2018 16:13

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BarTender:

I'm going to need some ointment for that burn... :)

..snip

I also assume the optical splitter would be the same so it would only require a swap out of the OLT SFP and new ONTs to deliver that service.

Hi, I understood 10Gpon is on a different wavelength to Gpon. so both can be operated on the same PON simultaneously.

I also wonder about the need in the near future for 10G services to residential or SME users, I can understand 1G service delivered over 10Gpon to manage local loop contention, but still struggle to see the use for 10G to the home.

I guess once they get particle teleporters running there will be a use case, but while I am still alive dont expect me to be on the test program.

Cyril

hio77

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Voyager

#2147950 19-Dec-2018 16:17

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BMarquis:

I know you have been out of the game for a while, but 1GB is not much these days. barely more than a CD's worth of storage ;)

If you think that the answer for peak speeds greater than 1gbps is dark fibre, you're crazy. Maybe you should have stayed on VDSL...

Pretty sure he wants his 0.5mbit upload back ;)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Talkiet

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#2147985 19-Dec-2018 16:22

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SpartanVXL:
Jase2985:

SpartanVXL: I am honestly confused. Any of us with over 160Mb/s can blow through 100MB in 5 seconds let alone 5 minutes. People using US based end-points to stream US netflix would be doing similar amounts of data as OP is but almost nobody bats an eye because it's an expected use case. But OP shouldn't be doing it to test his line against US? Pretty much every other day or four if I open up Steam I'll have 50GB worth of downloads queued. It'll finish in around half an hour or so, am I doing a bad thing by letting it use as much bandwidth as it can on a Gbit line? Data use is not a resource. Bandwidth is, especially with contention but you don't enforce it with data caps. I thought we left that behind half a decade ago.

because that on top of normal use.

Dude has an almost Gbit line. At 100Mb/s hes done in under 10 seconds leaving 290 seconds of time where that bandwidth is not used. He's not maxing 900Mb/s all day everyday. If other people on that capacity needed bandwidth too I'd hope it would be shared equally. I still don't get it, a speedtest does effectively the same thing does it not? He's just doing it repeatedly to get performance data. What's wrong with that? It's provisioned as such and hes paying for it. Why is it a waste if nobody else is needed it? It doesn't suffer wear and tear like roads, or neither is there a limit of 'bytes' going over a line before something goes wrong. Contention is always an issue but it can be alleviated and improved.

Short answer: Any bandwidth use at peak times contributes to an increased peak. Especially for international bandwidth this translates into required investment. One person doing this isn't a real world issue but all it's doing is contributing to increased costs. I know it's massively controversial and many people think all ISPs cry themselves to sleep on beds of cash every night, but when costs increase, so do prices.

So while one person pointlessly adding several hundred Mbps to the international peak for a few moments every 5 minutes during the evening won't hurt, it's a bad thing and should be discouraged.

Cheers - N

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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

BMarquis

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Chorus

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#2148075 19-Dec-2018 20:38

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BarTender:
BMarquis: I know you have been out of the game for a while, but 1GB is not much these days. barely more than a CD's worth of storage ;)

If you think that the answer for peak speeds greater than 1gbps is dark fibre, you're crazy. Maybe you should have stayed on VDSL...

10gpon is about more than just peak speed (i.e 10gbps services) - while it is an efficient way to deliver super high speeds, It also allows more users to peak higher in busy hour. Remember, it's a shared medium.
You *NEVER* want the network to be a limiting factor for innovation. 10gbps is about keeping ahead of the game.

I'm going to need some ointment for that burn... :)

So to understand this correctly pretty soon 10gbps ONTs are going to become standard for all new installs including residential ones as it's part of staying ahead of the game.

I also assume the optical splitter would be the same so it would only require a swap out of the OLT SFP and new ONTs to deliver that service.

But I agree in principal that staying with the latest technology is good to prevent being a limiting factor, but I would have thought the backhaul and handovers were more of an issue rather than client access.

What was the percentage of customers on 1gbps plans vs 100mbit again?

Standard - Yes, just a simple yes. And this...
“Pretty soon” = now.
https://fiber.salt.ch/en/offer-en/

XGSPON and GPON can coexist on the same splitter.

ABPH011

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#2148159 20-Dec-2018 08:11

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Talkiet:
shk292's analogy was the best. doing a 100MB download every 5 mins to check speed is dumb. By all means schedule a test (I do, but I initially ran the test hourly, and after a few weeks turned that down to 4 hourly).

As for the OPs problem - If he can do the following test:

- Windows machine (Please specify machine specs and windows version and if you have any SW firewalls running. Include the ethernet chipset type)

- Ethernet connected to Huawei 659b

- no other machines running or tests happening (Yes, disconnect the rest of your network and take the Samknows probe out temporarily)

- Use the Speedtest windows app

- Test to ONLY the spark Auckland and Spark Christchruch Speedtest servers (WN is due for an upgrade - it'll almost certainly still give great results but worth focusing on the others)

then I will have a look from our side. Please PM me your account number, current IP address and the test IDs of the speedtests you ran.

I'm not going to look into it myself unless you can test according to the above conditions.

Cheers - N

Thanks for all the responses. I will setup and do a nice isolated test just as I get time.

And just for kicks I have increased the frequency of the 100Mb tests to every minute.

Merry Christmas all!!

cyril7

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#2148160 20-Dec-2018 08:16

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Hi, interesting that Salt Fibre site, I note their speed comparison of the time it takes to download a 5GB movie, do people really still do that now?........., legit movies?, maybe I am doing it wrong.

Cyril

Talkiet

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#2148175 20-Dec-2018 08:28

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ABPH011:
Talkiet:
shk292's analogy was the best. doing a 100MB download every 5 mins to check speed is dumb. By all means schedule a test (I do, but I initially ran the test hourly, and after a few weeks turned that down to 4 hourly).

As for the OPs problem - If he can do the following test:

- Windows machine (Please specify machine specs and windows version and if you have any SW firewalls running. Include the ethernet chipset type)

- Ethernet connected to Huawei 659b

- no other machines running or tests happening (Yes, disconnect the rest of your network and take the Samknows probe out temporarily)

- Use the Speedtest windows app

- Test to ONLY the spark Auckland and Spark Christchruch Speedtest servers (WN is due for an upgrade - it'll almost certainly still give great results but worth focusing on the others)

then I will have a look from our side. Please PM me your account number, current IP address and the test IDs of the speedtests you ran.

I'm not going to look into it myself unless you can test according to the above conditions.

Cheers - N

Thanks for all the responses. I will setup and do a nice isolated test just as I get time.

And just for kicks I have increased the frequency of the 100Mb tests to every minute.

Merry Christmas all!!

I think you're joking but if you're not going to help yourself then I'm not sure I can be bothered either. Running the test every minute will affect your use.
N

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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

SpartanVXL

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#2148209 20-Dec-2018 09:39

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Talkiet: I think you're joking but if you're not going to help yourself then I'm not sure I can be bothered either. Running the test every minute will affect your use.

I agree that upping the frequency was unnecessary. I can see OP's side to doing tests against other endpoints rather than speedtest. I was under the impression that the Samknows testing was to test close to real world speeds to various places.

Speedtest is good and all but I've been kicked back and forth before because my speedtests would be fine but connections to places I actually wanted were down or erratic.

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