Another thread about the parts of the country that still can't get broadband

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Another thread about the parts of the country that still can't get broadband

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#2157074 9-Jan-2019 14:45

Lias: ..... Yet the unlimited wireless plans rate limit after what, 22gb? If the rate limiting kicked in after a few hundred gb, I think it would be much more palatable.

This simply isn't possible with the present resources. The total number of Gb's a wireless tower can dispense in a month is limited by the radio bandwidth available. By allocating customers a limited slice, everyone gets a fair go. If the Telco's dramatically upped everyone's data cap today, the towers would be swamped tomorrow and everyone's experience would be worse. A data cap allows the customer to self moderate - unlimited or very large caps means the customer gets limited by the next weakest link in the network and looses control of the quality of their service.

Unlimited wireless has been tried overseas in places and it was a failure that left everyone unhappy.

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atomeara

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#2157086 9-Jan-2019 14:56

BarTender:

atomeara: However under "LMSIP project" (no idea what this actually is, I assume it maybe related to the Spark PSTN shutdown) they did replace a small number of POTS/Voice only with new Broadband/Baseband IP cabinets. They were random places like north of Taumarunui and a few spots on the East Cape.

They also did a number on the inland highway link after the Kaikoura earthquake, I think about 8 got added.

LMSIP is a project I was involved with and it installs specially built line cards into the NEAX PBX to make the NEAX talk SIP on a whole slot.

What was done is where a copper bundle from the DSLAM to the exchange was destroyed and uneconomic to repair first from the CHC earthquake they deployed a few in a hurry and then more so post Kaikorua to get voice service back up quickly. Then all they needed to fix only the fibre backhaul back into the REN rather than needing to fix a huge copper bundle. Then used ISAM-V cards in the DSLAMS (aka Baseband IP) to map the lines on a one to one basis via the SBCs to an ordered sequence of ports on the NEAX. This was so that the provisioning was kept simple and there weren't any real changes in the provisioning process from ICMS into the NEAX, basically re-map port x on the NEAX to a new "port" and it happens to now be a SIP end point. Then hard-code the ISAM-V and SBCs to map port 1 on the ISAM-V card to port 1 on the LMSIP card. Then the ISAM-V card has a hotline so as soon as you pick up the home line it "dials 1" and then you get a dial tone on the NEAX.

It wasn't a solution I particularly fond of due to various reasons I don't want to talk about but I appreciated the elegance of deploying it where there were no real impacts to provisioning or billing or any of the other bits that make deploying voice hard.

Thanks for that, so is that something you would be expecting them to keep rolling out in late 2018? Would they not just move them directly to Baseband IP?

Seemed to be a bunch of work around Kawerau and Edgecumbe around Sept 2018.

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#2157168 9-Jan-2019 16:54

atomeara:

Thanks for that, so is that something you would be expecting them to keep rolling out in late 2018? Would they not just move them directly to Baseband IP?

Seemed to be a bunch of work around Kawerau and Edgecumbe around Sept 2018.

Nope. LMSIP will be dropping off, the second version of Baseband IP will come up.

I'm not really sure what the whole plan with PCMs etc will be come that time though..

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#2157170 9-Jan-2019 16:56

tripper1000:

Lias: ..... Yet the unlimited wireless plans rate limit after what, 22gb? If the rate limiting kicked in after a few hundred gb, I think it would be much more palatable.

This simply isn't possible with the present resources. The total number of Gb's a wireless tower can dispense in a month is limited by the radio bandwidth available. By allocating customers a limited slice, everyone gets a fair go. If the Telco's dramatically upped everyone's data cap today, the towers would be swamped tomorrow and everyone's experience would be worse. A data cap allows the customer to self moderate - unlimited or very large caps means the customer gets limited by the next weakest link in the network and looses control of the quality of their service.

Unlimited wireless has been tried overseas in places and it was a failure that left everyone unhappy.

Typically B28 gets swamped rather quickly by distant users.

Sure more capacity layers can be added but as the frequency increases, particularly for Rural where Signal sucking devices are planted everywhere! (trees)

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Coil

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#2157176 9-Jan-2019 17:11

I think a lot of people are forgetting that fixed services only very recently had unlimited data available main stream. Sure orcon was first or what ever but Vodafone and Spark entered the market in 2015 or 2016 with unlimited plans. Radio broadband technologies are still in their early days in the grand schemes of things.
A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

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#2157201 9-Jan-2019 17:55

Coil: I think a lot of people are forgetting that fixed services only very recently had unlimited data available main stream. Sure orcon was first or what ever but Vodafone and Spark entered the market in 2015 or 2016 with unlimited plans. Radio broadband technologies are still in their early days in the grand schemes of things.
A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

I think Chello can claim the first "unlimited" broadband back in June 2000, with some honourable mentions to Telecom's Jet Start, Go Large and Big Time plans over the next decade or so.

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Coil

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#2157314 10-Jan-2019 07:11

Lias:

Coil: I think a lot of people are forgetting that fixed services only very recently had unlimited data available main stream. Sure orcon was first or what ever but Vodafone and Spark entered the market in 2015 or 2016 with unlimited plans. Radio broadband technologies are still in their early days in the grand schemes of things.
A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

I think Chello can claim the first "unlimited" broadband back in June 2000, with some honourable mentions to Telecom's Jet Start, Go Large and Big Time plans over the next decade or so.

If we want to go that far back we can look at the iHug satellite offerings. I think they had something like 15/5 services and it was unlimited.
Edit: 1996-1998 IIRC

evilengineer

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#2157322 10-Jan-2019 08:32

Coil:A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

And yet we're told the "average" household now burns through 200GB a month.

80GB isn't exactly closing the urban/rural digital divide as promised, is it?

And strangely enough, people in the wop-wops aren't living in the late 2000s. They're living in the late 2010s just like everyone else.

Coil

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#2157326 10-Jan-2019 08:45

evilengineer:

Coil:A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

And yet we're told the "average" household now burns through 200GB a month.

80GB isn't exactly closing the urban/rural digital divide as promised, is it?

And strangely enough, people in the wop-wops aren't living in the late 2000s. They're living in the late 2010s just like everyone else.

While I get that some aspects of those programs are made out to seem like that, in reality do you actually reasonably expect this to be the case when we are dealing with new technology in one area and tried and tested in another. xDSL was not great when it first came out either.

Anyway, I could start bleating on about how people in the city pay more for fruit and vege but people in the country can get it from honesty boxes, markets and mates for chump change and get the best quality and freshest. You can't draw lines between the two, if you do you end up in these arguments where people are arguing on the basis that if he has it why don't I. Those arguments resemble this meme in my mind.

Anyway, I've gone full circle about 5 times in this thread now.

tim0001

261 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2157340 10-Jan-2019 09:42

Possibly people’s expectations of rural internet are being set too high. For example on https://www.chorus.co.nz/tools-support/broadband-tools/broadband-checker it can show a “Potential Speed” for a Conklin served address of 19Mbit/s.

This is ~40 times higher than the real speed during the day.

Coil

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#2157347 10-Jan-2019 10:07

tim0001:

Possibly people’s expectations of rural internet are are being set too high. For example on https://www.chorus.co.nz/tools-support/broadband-tools/broadband-checker it can show a “Potential Speed” for a Conklin served address of 19Mbit/s.

This is ~40 times higher than the real speed during the day.

This is Sync speed, throughput is different. I do note however that they do not have an ADSL disclaimer under their speed disclaimer - at all.
They completely forget to mention ADSL, that they still offer BUBA services and chorus is the sole reason why there is congestion.
They seem to be happy to blame WiFi, the provider (lol my republic) and anything else. Not once does it glance over the fact they still run a BUBA service.

Speed and connection disclaimer

Connection times

Our connection times are provided to give you an idea of the wait time from Chorus receiving your order from your broadband provider to your address being connected to our network on your chosen product.

VDSL

For VDSL connections, typically we are able to connect your address remotely. In some instances we need to visit the nearest cabinet or exchange to connect your address via VDSL. In a few cases, we’ll need to visit your property. If we aren’t able to connect you remotely, this may impact the timing of your connection.

Our connection times also assume that you are available for appointments that are booked for you (if relevant) and that your modem supplied by your broadband provider is available for installation (if applicable).

Fibre

For fibre connections, these times are identified when 20% of the schedule of appointments are unassigned for three consecutive working days. There may be available appointments before the stated lead time but it provides an indication of when our technician availability increases. Lead times do not account for complicated installations or consenting processes, which can vary from property to property.

Our connection times also assume that you are available for your scoping and installation appointments that are booked for you and that your modem supplied by your broadband provider is available for installation.

There are a number of factors that can impact lead and installation times including:

Weather, particularly for digging and trenching
Local council approvals and Resource Management Act
Time taken for completed orders to be lodged with Chorus by your broadband provider
Consenting process if applicable for your property
Specific installation requirements for your property

What speed can I ultimately expect online?

While Chorus provides you with a connection at a certain speed, there are other things that influence the speed you will ultimately experience when online.
These include:

Your modem

As with other devices, modems should be replaced every five years or so to make sure they keep up with advancements in technology. You'll usually get a new modem from your internet provider when upgrading your broadband plan. Some modems do have limits on the speed they can reach so ask your provider whether your modem can handle the speeds required by your connection. If you're looking to buy a new modem, compare the specifications of different models and purchase the best one you can afford – it'll give you a better fixed connection and better WiFi throughout your home.

Your home WIFI

Even with the best broadband service available, your WiFi can still perform poorly. But there are things you can do to get it working better. The location of your modem is key – put it somewhere you can see it and in an area where you use the internet the most. Larger houses may need to look into WiFi extenders or WiFi mesh systems like Orbi which boost your signal to reach even the furthest corners of your house. Your electronics retailer will be able to give you advice here.

Your device

If the hardware or operating system on the smartphone, tablet or computer you're using is older, your device could have trouble processing high-speed broadband. Check that your computers, laptops and smart devices have the capacity for your broadband technology and have updated software and protection against viruses or malware. There's lots of info online or your friendly electronics retailer can provide guidance here.

How information travels

The sites you are connecting to might not be able to respond as quickly as your broadband connection can operate. If you're connecting to a website, its server could slow you down based on where in the world it's located and the technology that site is using, even if your broadband connection is top notch.

Your broadband provider's network and capacity

Chorus provides a broadband connection between your address and your broadband provider's network. From there your broadband provider delivers your plan to you. The capacity of your provider's network can affect your ultimate experience. We recommend speaking to them if you'd like more information on this.

Broadband availability

Although broadband availability for your address is shown above, we'll sometimes need to extend our network or increase our network capacity in your area so that you can connect. If that happens, we'll charge you a fee for this work. You'll need to check with your preferred broadband provider to see if this is relevant at your address.

Broadband Map

KiwiSurfer

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#2157348 10-Jan-2019 10:10

tim0001:

Possibly people’s expectations of rural internet are being set too high. For example on https://www.chorus.co.nz/tools-support/broadband-tools/broadband-checker it can show a “Potential Speed” for a Conklin served address of 19Mbit/s.

This is ~40 times higher than the real speed during the day.

Checked a range of addresses and the ADSL/VDL speeds do vary. It seems to be based on an estimated line speed between the cabinet and the CPE, which is obviously of no help if the bottleneck is the backhaul.

tripper1000

1609 posts

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#2157375 10-Jan-2019 10:45

evilengineer:

Coil:A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

And yet we're told the "average" household now burns through 200GB a month.

80GB isn't exactly closing the urban/rural digital divide as promised, is it?

And strangely enough, people in the wop-wops aren't living in the late 2000s. They're living in the late 2010s just like everyone else.

"now" being the operative word.

When the RBI project kicked off 80Gb would have comfortably closed the digital divide. Netflix etc wasn't a thing back then.

Streaming video has dramatically increased the appetite for data and strained networks all over the 1st world. It isn't the governments or ISP's faults that peoples video consumption habits have changed and appetites for data has risen a whole order of magnitude.

In essence, a slice of cake was promised and now people are complaining that because they haven't been given 3 whole cakes, they are somehow hard done-by.

Edit: Spelling.

tim0001

261 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2157377 10-Jan-2019 10:51

KiwiSurfer:

tim0001:

Possibly people’s expectations of rural internet are being set too high. For example on https://www.chorus.co.nz/tools-support/broadband-tools/broadband-checker it can show a “Potential Speed” for a Conklin served address of 19Mbit/s.

This is ~40 times higher than the real speed during the day.

Checked a range of addresses and the ADSL/VDL speeds do vary. It seems to be based on an estimated line speed between the cabinet and the CPE, which is obviously of no help if the bottleneck is the backhaul.

Also, isn’t the max DSL sync speed of a Conklin ~8Mbit/s ?

BarTender

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#2157449 10-Jan-2019 12:19

Coil:

Lias:

Coil: I think a lot of people are forgetting that fixed services only very recently had unlimited data available main stream. Sure orcon was first or what ever but Vodafone and Spark entered the market in 2015 or 2016 with unlimited plans. Radio broadband technologies are still in their early days in the grand schemes of things.
A good RBI connection now with a 80GB data cap has better speed, equal data and price as the best fixed offering would have been, living next to an exchange in the late 2000’s.

I think Chello can claim the first "unlimited" broadband back in June 2000, with some honourable mentions to Telecom's Jet Start, Go Large and Big Time plans over the next decade or so.

If we want to go that far back we can look at the iHug satellite offerings. I think they had something like 15/5 services and it was unlimited.
Edit: 1996-1998 IIRC

~~Telecom~~ Spark launched the Unlimited plan in April 2014. https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=39&topicid=143668

Prior to that the ~~Telecom~~ Spark 500GB plan was launched back in 2012: http://www.techjungle.com/8227

This all the while broadband usage has been effectively doubling year on year and the largest Skinny (aka Spark) Fixed Wireless Plan if you're urban is 240GB as of today or 120GB in rural areas.

So to say a plan launched almost 5 years ago is "recent" and the reality is 7 years ago 500GB was as good as unlimited since there was only a very small number of people who exceeded that then and even today I don't think more than 10% of the country would use more than 500GB (but I could be wrong here)

Mobile 4G capacity has come a long way but I can't ever see a "true" unlimited plan becoming available on Mobile, via a WISP yes but not on Mobile. A capped plan where you get rate limited or offpeak unlimited but not unlimited 24/7 including during peak times.

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