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124 posts

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  Reply # 2157893 11-Jan-2019 08:36
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There isn't currently a mechanism for charging more in UFB areas for ADSL access, is there?

 

My understanding is that the unbundled copper access price is regulated/set by the Government and Chorus wouldn't be allowed to charge more in UFB areas as things stand, even if they wanted to.

 

I'm all for charging more for ADSL access in UFB areas to act as a nudge to get people onto fibre as long as the extra money got spent on improvements in rural areas.

 

Perhaps a law change and a variable telecommunications levy?    


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  Reply # 2158013 11-Jan-2019 10:53
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evilengineer:

 

There isn't currently a mechanism for charging more in UFB areas for ADSL access, is there?

 

My understanding is that the unbundled copper access price is regulated/set by the Government and Chorus wouldn't be allowed to charge more in UFB areas as things stand, even if they wanted to.

 

I'm all for charging more for ADSL access in UFB areas to act as a nudge to get people onto fibre as long as the extra money got spent on improvements in rural areas.

 

Perhaps a law change and a variable telecommunications levy?    

 

 

I think the law has been changed to allow for unregulated copper price in UFB areas starting 2020. I wonder if a variable telecommunications levy would be be better though, so the government can have extra money for RBI instead of Chorus pocketing it.


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2158018 11-Jan-2019 11:10
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As someone who craves UFB access but can't get it (yet) these sorts of posts are really frustrating to read. 

 

 

 

Current schedule says UFB coming to my area by Nov 2019. When it does I'll be the first to sign-up, I'll take time off work to make sure it is done to my satisfaction. I'll dig trenches by hand if needs be and sit back and watch as they knock holes in my walls while I bring them tea and biscuits. And when its all complete I'll be grateful for having access to one of the best pieces of broadband infrastructure anywhere.


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  Reply # 2158022 11-Jan-2019 11:16
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@daringpeter   I see that you were asking on GZ about Flip and fibre back in August 2016.

 

So I guess you were curious or interested in something faster than your ADSL.

 

Did you look into the Vocus Group (related to Flip) offer to hook you up with a sister company that has fibre? 

 

Given that you appear to be on a very low cost legacy ADSL plan, then I think that maybe the $2/month increase for your ADSL is your lowest cost option.





Gordy


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  Reply # 2158027 11-Jan-2019 11:24
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daringpeter:

 

I really am not happy with Chorus contractors banging holes in my bricks etc.

 

 

No doubt you are concerned about the few bad fibre installations reported on GZ.

 

There must be a very high number of good installs.

 

If you were to look at fibre then at scoping time you could specify exactly how you wanted any work done.

 

I guess you could always refuse to install fibre if you were not happy with the installation spec. 

 

 





Gordy


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  Reply # 2158147 11-Jan-2019 13:39
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@daringpeter If ADSL suits you why not stick with it. I am sure an end to free installs would be well signposted (and I think a political challenge ATM)

 

However I want to provide a counter point to those poor installs cases we all read about.

 

My install was top notch. They came past for the scope and we agreed to use the existing conduit to the house from the street. The end of the conduit was under the house buried under a meter of loose fill. I cleared that for them.
And then they spend a while clearing a mystery blockage in the conduit with the rod (Concrete used as a plug).
Finally they put the ONT exactly where I wanted it ensure the fibre came up from under the house and out the wall for a very tidy job.

 

In my experience a good chat when scoping and being willing to help with some the work so it is an easier job goes a long way.

 

For multiple users I find UFB essential. Gaming, Music, youtube and Netflix all streaming at once is not usual for our house (2 kids, 2 adults)


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  Reply # 2158393 11-Jan-2019 15:38
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@daringpeter I presume that you have never had a line fault on your ADSL. I once had a fault that took approx 6 months before it was finally fixed properly. It was intermittent, so lots of visits from Telecom to try and get it fixed. Was eventually traced to a short circuit in the underground leadin cable to my house. (happened in the BC era - Before Chorus) Was very frustrating as every time I called, I had to repeat the usual troubleshooting process. No it is not my modem that is faulty.

In comparison, UFB took exactly 1 week between placing the order, and it fully installed and working.

The wholesale prices for copper are already higher than fiber. However lots of ISPs like to offer the same price for both copper and UFB. So they increase their prices but offer higher speeds to compensate. There are lots of fixed costs with operating the copper network. If someone digs through a cable, the cost to repair is the same if that cable serves 5 or 50 customers. Same thing if a DSLAM fails at the exchange. And the cabinets still need power, including the fixed line fees. Copper faults occur more often than fibre, are harder to trace, and often take longer to repair. So yes, copper should definitely be more expensive in UFB areas. Lots of other countries are also doing fibre rollouts. Eventually the copper network will get forced offline due to no companies making the necessary equipment. This is already happening with the Conklin and other legacy ADSL cabinets. As they run on long obsolete technology that dates back to the 80s. Chorus is being forced to get rid of them, as some parts of that network are running without any spare parts or backup systems. As no company still makes the right parts. And a failure might mean that that old network could be permanently offline.

Have a look at Unlimited Internet - $60 per month for 30/10 UFB. Which will still be much faster than ADSL. Also have a look at Orcon and Slingshot. As they are owned by the same company that owns Flip.







23 posts

Geek


  Reply # 2159434 11-Jan-2019 19:58
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Guys

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice.  Maybe I didn't make myself clear, especially to those who ( understandably) think only of data.  But, my dilemma is about 'phone (like 'voice') pricing, not data. There is NO provider who will match Flip's legacy bundle for me. I know, 'no contract' but good on Flip, they haven't opted out of their original plan. Maybe when the bean counters at Vocus catch up with them it will go. But, fibre will cost me money for a service that I do not (currently) need. 

 

I agree, the future does look somewhat bleak for old relics like me...


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  Reply # 2159439 11-Jan-2019 20:13
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How much exactly are you currently paying per month? So far, everyone has only been taking educated guesses.

And do you actually need a landline phone? As a prepaid cellphone with a monthly pack of calling minutes might be fine for what you need.

Edit to add.

Warehouse mobile offer a 200min calling pack for $4 which is valid for 1 month.

So potentially just $64 per month for fibre and calling. And those mobile minutes can be used to call any landlines and mobiles. (no more paying for toll calls).

A landline only makes sense if you make lots of outgoing calls, but only to other local landlines. They often have high per minute fees to call cellphones.





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  Reply # 2159442 11-Jan-2019 20:54
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@daringpeter

 

You have really answered your own Gordian knot... Stay with your Flip legacy plan..... UFB is not for you :-)

 

 





Gordy


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  Reply # 2159443 11-Jan-2019 21:06
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Gordy7:

@daringpeter

 

You have really answered your own Gordian knot... Stay with your Flip legacy plan..... UFB is not for you :-)

 

 

 

 

I think you missed the point of this thread re uncertainty surrounding repealing of legislation for copper.

 

 

I have not read any official announcements but I have heard in some areas UCLL kit is already starting to be pulled out of exchanges. This legacy Flip plan will undoubtedly be utilising unbundled copper at least for the landline component.

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  Reply # 2159482 11-Jan-2019 21:17
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yitz:
Gordy7:

 

@daringpeter

 

You have really answered your own Gordian knot... Stay with your Flip legacy plan..... UFB is not for you :-)

 

 

 

I think you missed the point of this thread re uncertainty surrounding repealing of legislation for copper. I have not read any official announcements but I have heard in some areas UCLL kit is already starting to be pulled out of exchanges. This legacy Flip plan will undoubtedly be utilising unbundled copper at least for the landline component.

 

However the OP was looking at options for 2019 and does not want to spent any money.

 

The withdrawal of copper is further in the future.

 

 





Gordy


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  Reply # 2159511 11-Jan-2019 21:47
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Will be interesting to see any developments this year... I wouldn't be surprised if OP receives notification that the legacy service/plan will be discontinued sometime this year... however the copper withdrawal code does state that "before the copper service can be withdrawn an equivalent fibre service is readily available at no additional cost to the consumer". I wonder if Vocus group has kept the Flip brand around to battle this one out in regard to seeking lower wholesale fibre costs.

 

 

https://comcom.govt.nz/regulated-industries/telecommunications/regulated-services/consumer-protections-for-copper-withdrawal/copper-withdrawal-code/timeline/commission-launches-consultations-on-safeguards-for-consumers-moving-from-copper-to-fibre-broadband

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  Reply # 2159516 11-Jan-2019 21:58
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yitz: Will be interesting to see any developments this year... I wouldn't be surprised if OP receives notification that the legacy service/plan will be discontinued sometime this year... however the copper withdrawal code does state that "before the copper service can be withdrawn an equivalent fibre service is readily available at no additional cost to the consumer". I wonder if Vocus group has kept the Flip brand around to battle this one out in regard to seeking lower wholesale fibre costs. https://comcom.govt.nz/regulated-industries/telecommunications/regulated-services/consumer-protections-for-copper-withdrawal/copper-withdrawal-code/timeline/commission-launches-consultations-on-safeguards-for-consumers-moving-from-copper-to-fibre-broadband

 

Good angle... There will be a lot of pressure for price reduction on fibre...

 

I might hang on to my copper for a while too. My VDSL (plus VoIP landline) is reasonably fast  :-)

 

 





Gordy




23 posts

Geek


  Reply # 2159521 11-Jan-2019 22:18
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Hi

 

Flip's legacy pack gives me 'free' calling to 39 countries, including say UK and US. Also Aussie- but not mobiles. And mobiles in about 9 countries, not all 3rd world by any means. There is 'carry-over' and a cap, which I have never needed. However, now I would be happy with 'free' national calls, landline and mobile. All for a bit over $73 a month, including ADSL. 


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