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# 257393 30-Sep-2019 18:57
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Apologies if there is a double up.  My initial post disappeared as soon as I hit the post button.

 

 

 

My question is what speed connection “should” I get on ADSL2+.

 

I’m currently getting 6 Mbps down with attenuation of 28 dB.

 

I have been reading the forums to see what people are getting and what issues might be causing slow downs so have checked the wiring etc.

 

Is there anything else I should be looking at, and is it worth raising with the ISP?

 

 

 

(secondary question – I have an ISP chasing me saying that I should be able to get near 20 Mbps on Vectoring VDSL.  Seems high.  Is this possible?)

 

 

 

Background

 

I live semi-rural a little out of Auckland and broadband speed has always been a problem.  I had ADSL installed years ago with a master splitter.  Initially I got 3 Mbps, but over time it dropped to 28 kbps (yes, like dial up.  But the ping time was worse.) I still got reasonable speed if I was using the internet at 3 am.   Understanding the infrastructure in place a little better, I now realise the limitations.

 

 

 

RBI came available when Spark put a 700 MHz tower in the right place.  It is good, but comes with a 120 Gb data allowance.  With 2 teenagers at home and a wife who will watch tv on demand I got sick of the extra data charges.

 

So when the announcement that the local cabinet was (unexpectedly) being upgraded to fibre I was hopeful.

 

Initial searches showed that at 2.2 km by road from the cabinet I might get ~15 Mbps.  Actual cable cuts a few corners and attenuation agrees with a slightly shorter distance.  I realise those are probably optimal figures and real life will be a bit less.  All the charts and info seemed to indicate that VDSL was not going to be any faster, and in fact would likely be slower with more problems.  Hence the secondary question above.

 

I now have a naked broadband connection with Bigpipe.  Unfortunately I’m only getting 6 Mbps download speed.  Up is usually around 1 Mbps.  I checked with a Draytek 120 modem to see if there was a hardware problem. (vs the ISP provided modem/router)  Same results.  All testing done over ethernet, not Wifi.

 

As wiring was often mentioned as a potential problem (old house, multiple phone jacks, original ADSL splitter, questionable looking wire in the Demarc box, 15 m of twin core wire running to splitter and another few meters of phone line) I ran some Cat 6 cable (only small roll I could get.  Not expecting speeds requiring such cable!) from Demarc to a new RJ45 which the modem plugs into.  Nothing else in the line.

 

After a brief nervous moment waiting for a new connection to be established and, I get 6 Mbps download speed.  So much for quality wiring.😄

 

Searching on Geekzone I see there are a number of knowledgeable people here, some of whom work in the industry.  Hoping that they might give an opinion on what is reasonable.

 

I get some hope from a couple of posts by @Chevrolux indicating he has 29 dB and syncs at 12 Mbps.  I’d be happy at that.

 

Any suggestions on my next steps, or should I be raising this with the ISP?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Modem stats

 

Maximum upstream rate (kbit/s)                  1048

 

Makimum downstream rate (kbit/s)            6780

 

Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB)            12.6

 

Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB)       12.2

 

Upstream interleave depth                                   0

 

Downstream interleave depth                              0

 

Line standard                                                        ADSL_2plus

 

Upstream line attenuation (dB)                         14.1

 

Downstream line attenuation (dB)                    28

 

Upstream output power (dBmV)                        12.1

 

Downstream output power (dBmV)                   19.3

 

Downstream interleave depth                           None          (this is here a second time)

 

DSL up time                                                           10 Days


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  # 2327272 30-Sep-2019 19:08
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6.7Mb/s sync rate seems a little low for 28dB attenuation. The 12dB noise margin though indicates there is some noise and/or stability issue on the line (assuming ddDLM is doing it's thing). Rural areas can have things like electric fences and other source of interference which really hamper xDSL. I don't think @hio77 can help directly with a Bigpipe connection, but he's as knowledgeable as anyone on xDSL services, and may have an idea of general line quality in your area.


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  # 2327274 30-Sep-2019 19:11
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Looks like your loosing the pair loto...

I'd look at having the roadside copper checked out.
Dm me your address and I'll check a confidence level in this. Is always a big risk chorus will say its always been bad so it will stay bad.

Equally could be unfixable (which is why I'd compare first to area)




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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 




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  # 2327308 30-Sep-2019 21:02
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Hi

 

Thanks @hio77

 

Appreciate the fast response.  DM sent.

 

 

 

Yeah, get the uncomfortable feeling that it may be bad luck.  Won't be getting fibre any time soon. (ever)  So, hoping for some sort of improvement.

 

 

 

 


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  # 2327315 30-Sep-2019 21:30
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Ethernet fed ISAM, only doing ADSL2+ (no fibre)

 

 

 

No idea what the provider that contacted ya are smoking... Looks like limited Backhaul.

 

The Copper doesnt look too flash.

 

 

 

@chorusnz might be able to comment further, I'm not seeing any plans for upgrades though.

 

 

 

Based on connect rates, I highly suspect it's not running a full ADSL2+ Profile there. Looks more like a ADSL1 Profile (but that's not what your modem is showing)





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  # 2327326 30-Sep-2019 21:37
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What area in this?

 

 





Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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  # 2327328 30-Sep-2019 21:38
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@Tourist As above what area just out of Auckland? Approx.


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  # 2327336 30-Sep-2019 21:42
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coffeebaron:

 

What area in this?

 

 

And here comes your savor, have fraser hook you up with a wireless offer ;)





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2327564 1-Oct-2019 11:47
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Hey @Tourist I’m no tech expert like hio, but if want to flick us a DM as well with your address I can confirm what you are on and if there are any upgrades to the cabinet pending.

 

If hio77 is right and you are on one of the very few cabinets left with a copper backhaul, that will severely limit your speed prospects and there would be little you could do at home to improve the speed. ^Richard




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# 2327729 1-Oct-2019 14:10
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Hi All

 

 

Area is near Hunua. (out of Papakura)

 

Cabinet is Hun/J (according to previous tech that was looking into slow ADSL speed years ago)

 

 

Had wireless and tried to get the 240 Gb limit that they advertised a few times. No go. For some reason them moving me to a plan that they were advertising would somehow end up with too many people on that cell tower! (hmmm, not how i remember doing math all those years ago) Basically seemed that they didn't want to move me to anything other that status of Cash Cow.

 

 

They only just ran fibre out to the cabinet a few weeks back. Spoke to the Downers contractor the morning he was doing the change over. Think he said a "couple of hundred Meg" connections back to the Hunua School area which i believe has fibre.

 

 

He guestimated I might be good for 8 Mbps at my distance. I thought that was low, based on all the tables I had found. Maybe he knows something.

 

 

Spent last night looking at Google Earth. I have line of site to the school. Believe I can rent space for equipment there and connect to the fibre. Become my own WISP. Anyone know what the hardware is worth? (semi-joking - but it doesn't seem that expensive for hardware - if I'm looking at the right stuff?)

 

 

Thanks @Chorus I believe it is fibre fed now. I watched the cable runs. But, that is not to say it is actually switched over https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/images/ico29.gif

 

DM sent - be interested to know what you might find.

 

 

Thanks everyone.

 

 


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  # 2327744 1-Oct-2019 14:23
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HUN/J (along with HUN/K and HUN/E) have been upgraded to Fibre backhaul in the last couple of months

 

The listed upgraded date was 4th and 5th Sept was for HUN/J

 

They all support VDSL (but I don't think VDSL vectoring - I understand Chorus are using reusing the older VDSL cards they pulled out during the vectoring rollout in these cabinets).

 

 

 

If you are near the cabinet you should be able to get decent VDSL speeds, it depends a bit on the number of lines, distance and condition of the copper. In some situations VDSL will work up to 2km.
Rural tends to have a low number of lines.

 

 

 

A new install and line may help with the speeds as well so VDSL might be worth giving it a go!

 

 

 

Sometimes getting the left hand and right hand of Chorus to agree that VDSL is available can take a bit of work, I had one 2 weeks ago that I had to go to my SDM to get confirmed, as provisioning kept saying it can't do VDSL. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2327771 1-Oct-2019 14:44
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As above, should have been upgraded. What is you distance from cnr of Hunua and Ponga roads?

 

 





Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com




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  # 2327776 1-Oct-2019 14:55
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Distance by road is 2.2km.

 

Overhead line cuts a few corners and may be fractionally less.

 


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  # 2327779 1-Oct-2019 15:01
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Cheers @Tourist.

 

HUN/J it is (and upgrade is complete). A few people are already getting VDSL off the cabinet.

 

Unfortunately you don’t really have any neighbours around you with DSL services that I can use as a baseline for roughly what speeds to expect, nor a proper line history I can peruse. Prequal estimates you should get a down of 12 mbps given the distance and attenuation.

 

 

 

Tourist: Distance by road is 2.2km. Overhead line cuts a few corners and may be fractionally less.

 

Estimated line distance is 1.5km.

 

 

 

As atomeara has pointed out it may well be worth while giving VDSL a try (along with a full install). The only accurate way to estimate if VDSL is in fact going to work is to actually test it out for a while. And you can always switch back if it proves to be too unstable. ^Richard


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  # 2327841 1-Oct-2019 15:47
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Chorusnz:

 

Estimated line distance is 1.5km.

 

 

 

As atomeara has pointed out it may well be worth while giving VDSL a try (along with a full install). The only accurate way to estimate if VDSL is in fact going to work is to actually test it out for a while. And you can always switch back if it proves to be too unstable. ^Richard

 

 

As a side note, Might pay to get the teams up update the details on the cabinet in that case.

 

 

 

For example... CCM doesnt display VDSL nor the fibre link. Prequals for addresses right next to the cabinet indicate no WVS 0 and DSL speeds max out at ADSL1 Profile speeds on the DSL Speed report. Broadband Coverage report lists the cabinet correctly as a Ethernet Fed ISAM, but doesn't list VDSL as available.

 

Happy to shout out WAK/J as another example of where it's confused..

 

 

 

All adds up to simply confusion for not only end users but also providers.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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  # 2327850 1-Oct-2019 16:10
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So if prequal indicates 12 and I am getting 6, with new ethernet from Demarc to modem and nothing else wired in I assume there is a problem with the wires from cabinet to me. Someone indicated 12dB noise margin wasn't great. Can that be fixed.

 

 

If that is the case I raise it with the ISP first?

 

 

And no point trying VDSL until sorted?

 

Or would a VDSL install change something else.

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