The pathetically sorry and pitiful state of the internet in NZ

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# 255120 12-Sep-2009 00:13

I know that, the point is that as much as people complain and moan it's easy to forget there are many other countries out there where it is much worse, as that example shows and as others have mentioned above. So the OP's thread title is a bit harsh, but that's a moot point anyway seeing as he's been banned.

NonprayingMantis

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# 255212 12-Sep-2009 16:25

corksta: You really can't complain when you read an article like this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/2851526/Pigeon-post-faster-than-internet

what an odd comparison.

Local news agency SAPA reported the 11-month-old pigeon, Winston, took one hour and eight minutes to fly the 80km from Unlimited IT's offices near Pietermaritzburg to the coastal city of Durban with a data card s strapped to his leg.

Including downloading, the transfer took two hours, six minutes and 57 seconds - the time it took for only four percent of the data to be transferred using a line from Telkom, the country's leading internet service provider.

does it state the size fo the file transferred? no.

For all we know there was 20 x 4GB micro-SD cards strapped to the pigeons legs.

Anyway, was it an African Pigeon or a European Pigeon?

It's all a question of weight ratios... :D

PenultimateHop

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# 255235 12-Sep-2009 18:18

NonprayingMantis: does it state the size fo the file transferred? no.

For all we know there was 20 x 4GB micro-SD cards strapped to the pigeons legs.

Anyway, was it an African Pigeon or a European Pigeon?

It's all a question of weight ratios... :D

Well, it does specify a single data card. Let's say that it is a single 4GB micro-SD card, with a 4GB file on it. We'll be optimistic and compare it to a perfect conditions ADSL2plus G.992.5 circuit where we have a 1Mbps IP-throughput upstream capability.

4GB Data card, at 2h6m57s yields 4.3Mbit/sec transfer rate.
4GB over ADSL2plus at 1Mbps yields a 546.13 minute transfer time, which is 9 hours and 6 minutes.
Telkom's 4% achievement of data in 2h6m57s yields about 172Kbps in throughput.

Of course, if a business needs to transfer data (particularly upstream), we could assume they would buy a business oriented connection, like say a 10Mbps Ethernet circuit - which would only take 54 minutes!

Amusing way of pointing out that Telkom's performance is less than ideal -- or that the customer is purchasing the wrong type of service :).

Screeb

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# 255246 12-Sep-2009 20:23

corksta: I know that, the point is that as much as people complain and moan it's easy to forget there are many other countries out there where it is much worse, as that example shows and as others have mentioned above. So the OP's thread title is a bit harsh, but that's a moot point anyway seeing as he's been banned.

That's like saying "you can't complain about New Zealand's life expectancy being 50 years* when there are many other countries that are much lower, like Swaziland".

*Yes I know it's not actually 50, or low by any standard.

hellonearthisman

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# 255269 12-Sep-2009 22:10

mattbush: I actually believe telecom are responsible for the better broadband in NZ over the last couple of years following their decision to invest heavily in infrastructure. Also their new CEO has helped. On the otherhand, telstraclear still seem to be grossly lacking in new investment and just talk about it.

Whilst their cable is still superior(in places that can access it), Telecom's new infrastructure is fast catching up.

Isn't the CallPlus CEO resigning, I wonder if it's because he didn't want to go an FairGo? He's on the board so it can't have been resigning due to error, it looks like it was a promotion, but how's the next CEO going to be.

Slingshot has improved over the last year or two. Before when the Internet got clogged, it would die, no email, no msn, no html. It was shocking. Slingshot implimented a caching and priotisation system that has fixed that problem. The internet exprence is way better, the max speed might not be there but the connection is stable and the free data periods are great.

The Pigeon debate has been happening on the Slingshot forums too around the use of RFC 1149 to move data.

NonprayingMantis

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# 255276 12-Sep-2009 23:12

PenultimateHop:
NonprayingMantis: does it state the size fo the file transferred? no.

For all we know there was 20 x 4GB micro-SD cards strapped to the pigeons legs.

Anyway, was it an African Pigeon or a European Pigeon?

It's all a question of weight ratios... :D

Well, it does specify a single data card.

I wasn't sure about that as it says "a data card s". I wonder if it means data cards or a single data card.

Let's say that it is a single 4GB micro-SD card, with a 4GB file on it. We'll be optimistic and compare it to a perfect conditions ADSL2plus G.992.5 circuit where we have a 1Mbps IP-throughput upstream capability.

4GB Data card, at 2h6m57s yields 4.3Mbit/sec transfer rate.
4GB over ADSL2plus at 1Mbps yields a 546.13 minute transfer time, which is 9 hours and 6 minutes.
Telkom's 4% achievement of data in 2h6m57s yields about 172Kbps in throughput.

it;s also not clear aboutthe time

Local news agency SAPA reported the 11-month-old pigeon, Winston,
took one hour and eight minutes to fly the 80km from Unlimited IT's
offices near Pietermaritzburg to the coastal city of Durban with a data
card s strapped to his leg.

Including downloading, the transfer took two hours, six minutes and 57 seconds -

are we supposed to beleive that although the pigeon flew the route in 1h 8m, it took almost another entire hour just to plug in the data card and transfer the file?

If it was a 4GB card, then 4% of 4GB is approx 160 MB. 160MB in ~2hours is approx 1.4MB per minute, or 23kB/s. Pretty slow, but then you can get much larger data cards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card
If the card was 32GB would make the speed 184kB/s which is pretty decent transfer rate IMO.

Other types of memory card can come in even bigger capacity than 32GB - I've seen a 64GB SDXC card launching very soon http://www.toshiba.com/taec/news/press_releases/2009/memy_09_572.jsp,
and heard of (but not sure if they are close to being released) a 1TB (yes Terabyte) SD card.

ETA: I found another article where they claim it was a 4GB card
http://www.henriska.com/blog/?p=615

macuser

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# 255289 13-Sep-2009 02:54

Screeb:
corksta: I know that, the point is that as much as people complain and moan it's easy to forget there are many other countries out there where it is much worse, as that example shows and as others have mentioned above. So the OP's thread title is a bit harsh, but that's a moot point anyway seeing as he's been banned.

That's like saying "you can't complain about New Zealand's life expectancy being 50 years* when there are many other countries that are much lower, like Swaziland".

*Yes I know it's not actually 50, or low by any standard.

I think the thing is, some of us are not comparing to countries with similar population, GDP and geography. All of us understand the idea of economies of scale. South Korea has 43 million more people than New Zealand and is about 4/10ths the size...

Just saying...

friedCrumpet

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# 255308 13-Sep-2009 08:59

NonprayingMantis:

Anyway, was it an African Pigeon or a European Pigeon?

Being in South Africa, I think we can safely assume it's an African Pigeon

.

Also on a more serious note the transfer times probably indicate time to write to the card and read from the card, not just reading from the card. And we all know writing to your average flash device takes a lot longer than reading from it.

Screeb

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# 255389 13-Sep-2009 17:27

macuser:
I think the thing is, some of us are not comparing to countries with similar population, GDP and geography. All of us understand the idea of economies of scale. South Korea has 43 million more people than New Zealand and is about 4/10ths the size...

Just saying...

No one's saying we have to be as good as South Korea. However, our population, GDP and geography do not account for the disparity between our broadband and that of other countries, and, more importantly, do not mean that we can't, or shouldn't have better broadband. It should be noted that most of the top broadband countries have had significant government investment to get them to that state. Much much much more than NZ has. If anything, our population, etc should be even more reason for the government to step in and do something about it.

PenultimateHop

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# 255397 13-Sep-2009 17:42

NonprayingMantis: I wasn't sure about that as it says "a data card s". I wonder if it means data cards or a single data card.

Hopefully Stuff meant "a data card", since "a data cards" would not make too much sense in English. Of course, their editing is woefully bad at times.

I had read some other articles which mentioned a single 4GB data card; which is what I based my assumptions on for the math.

NonprayingMantis: it;s also not clear aboutthe time

Local news agency SAPA reported the 11-month-old pigeon, Winston,
took one hour and eight minutes to fly the 80km from Unlimited IT's
offices near Pietermaritzburg to the coastal city of Durban with a data
card s strapped to his leg.

Including downloading, the transfer took two hours, six minutes and 57 seconds -

are we supposed to beleive that although the pigeon flew the route in 1h 8m, it took almost another entire hour just to plug in the data card and transfer the file?

Indeed, but just using the reported numbers.

NonprayingMantis: If it was a 4GB card, then 4% of 4GB is approx 160 MB. 160MB in ~2hours is approx 1.4MB per minute, or 23kB/s. Pretty slow, but then you can get much larger data cards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card
If the card was 32GB would make the speed 184kB/s which is pretty decent transfer rate IMO.

Other types of memory card can come in even bigger capacity than 32GB - I've seen a 64GB SDXC card launching very soon http://www.toshiba.com/taec/news/press_releases/2009/memy_09_572.jsp,
and heard of (but not sure if they are close to being released) a 1TB (yes Terabyte) SD card.

ETA: I found another article where they claim it was a 4GB card
http://www.henriska.com/blog/?p=615

Agreed - you'll find that the maths align (23Kbyte/s being approx. 180Kbit/s, which is inline with my 172Kbit/s assumption).

I guess it points to two things:

1. People using the wrong tool for the job (most likely ADSL).
2. Telkom probably not offering the right tool for the job anyway!

insane

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# 255465 13-Sep-2009 21:48

I think the transfer time includes the time it took to download the file to start with, then transfer it to the card. Last time I spoke to my brother the fastest they had there was 4mbpd/512k but that may have been surpassed.
Needless to say it was just a PR stunt to show the speeds that regular small to medium business rely on, or can afford. The point to take from this is not that we should be using birds (in case anyone missed that) but rather to take a pot shot at Telkom SA who are less willing to invest in infrastructure than Telecom NZ for example. Sadly its the same story for most public sectors back there.

Kyanar

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# 255501 14-Sep-2009 07:40

Here's the original source: http://pigeonrace2009.co.za/pigeon-race-2009

According to a couple of South Africans I work with, beating Telkom is a bit like beating a grandmother in a walking frame.

I finally have fibre! Had to leave the country to get it though.

ronindanbo

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# 255507 14-Sep-2009 08:25

As an ex Telecom employee I have to say that Broadband is only good these days because of the so called 'whinging' that people are so sick of here, Telecom only started taking BB seriously in about 2003-4 when they started introducing usable home plans at realistic rates.

I wouldent bash the whingers guys otherwise Gattung would have kept focusing on Mobile and we would still have the choice between 100mb and 250mb plans at one speed lol....

NonprayingMantis

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# 255688 14-Sep-2009 18:37

Kyanar: Here's the original source: http://pigeonrace2009.co.za/pigeon-race-2009

According to a couple of South Africans I work with, beating Telkom is a bit like beating a grandmother in a walking frame.

Beating TelKom is thoroughly enjoyable?? :P

scottjames84

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# 257676 22-Sep-2009 23:00

After being away from New Zealand and experiencing the finer things in life technologically speaking I have to say New Zealanders are getting jipped in terms of price and quality of broadband.

I use the internet for alot of things; youtube, streaming music, downloading information, voIP, ect
My average bill on Xnet is currently about $130 a month with out using the internet for its full potential.

New Zealanders cannot use broadband in its current state for its full potential with out spending hundreds of $$ on bandwidth.'

If Telecom would give better prices with better plans, perhaps uncapped transfer then New Zealand could move up in the world and not get stuck in the stone age.

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