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360 posts

Ultimate Geek


Topic # 55975 11-Jan-2010 21:42
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Hi not sure if i got this in the right place. maby it should of been under networks.


Back ground. The first time i shortend my phone line when i went to vfx on xnet, i didnt need a phone jack because its all done over broad band. so i decided i only needed one phone jack.

any way when doing so i found where all the telephone wires went and the were soldered together i couldnt believe my eyes. maby this is the way they use to do it i dont know. I proceeded to cut cut the line back at the first phone jack. in doing so i gained around an extra 1mb in sync speed went from a solid 5.2mb sync to 6.0 - 6.5mb sync speed down. yay for me. oh yea and i removed the ring wires maby that did it.

next question. i was thinking of moving the phone jack closer to where the phone cable comes up out of the ground under the house maby put the jack right over top of it. drill a hole in the floor and come up.

i will be removing about 15m of cable if i do so, its not going to be easy as i need to get under the house very tight. is it worth my while any body have an opinion.

is my understanding correct if i leave the current phone jack intact there would be no point because i would have just as much resistance on the phone line as if it was at the furtherest point in my house. so i should just cut the line alltogether and place a phone jack as close to the wire coming in as posible?


hopfully that made sense and you get the idea thanks for your thoughts.




Hu? did i do that?
16Mb (EDO RAM), K6-II processor, 2Mb of onboard graphics. 32k dial up modem. 12 speed CD ROM. 5¼-inch floppy drive. 500Mb HDD.

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  Reply # 289102 11-Jan-2010 21:47
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So your current jack is the first and only one in the house that's not in use?

If so you probably won't gain a lot by shortening it. My only suggestion would be to check the demarcation point where the external Telecom joins your internal; cabling and ensure this is clean and tidy with no visible corrosion.




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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 289106 11-Jan-2010 21:53
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I have two phone jacks the first is what my router is pluged into. the secound ran off this but i removed it off the point to reduce resistance cause of the soldering so the second one isnt attached at all to the phone network. . the demacation point if any would be up on the power pole. the cable runs down the pole under the drive then up out of the ground into my house. nothing in between. there is a cream/white/yellow box on top of the pole where mine and the nabours connects into

this is my stats at the moment

b--- System Information ---
Vendor: Linksys
ModelName: WAG160N
Firmware Version: A1.00.15 , 2009-05-31T16:58:02
GUI Version: A1.00.15_007
Boot Version: 1.0.37-5.4
Hardware Version: 0.01

--- DSL Information ---
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/100
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
DSL Mode: G.DMT
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 832 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 6176 Kbps

Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 11.4 dB 12.0 dB
DSL Attenuation: 39.0 dB 24.0 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 19.7 dBm 11.9 dBm

--- Wireless Information ---
Wireless Driver Version: 6.1.1.111
Wireless Tools Version: 28
Wireless Status: Enabled
Wireless Wide Channel: 9
Wireless Standard Channel: 11- 2.462GHZ
Wireless SSID: brendon

--- Dynamic Information ---
LAN Mac Address: 00:21:29:80:B4:F6
WAN Mac Address: 00:21:29:80:B4:F8
Wireless Mac Address: 00:21:29:80:B4:F7

this is during the day at night time the DSL Attenuation: down goes from 39 to 40 asuming this is the street lights turning on maby or other users




Hu? did i do that?
16Mb (EDO RAM), K6-II processor, 2Mb of onboard graphics. 32k dial up modem. 12 speed CD ROM. 5¼-inch floppy drive. 500Mb HDD.

 
 
 
 




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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 289107 11-Jan-2010 21:54
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the down noise margin jumps from a low of 10.5 but normally sits at 12




Hu? did i do that?
16Mb (EDO RAM), K6-II processor, 2Mb of onboard graphics. 32k dial up modem. 12 speed CD ROM. 5¼-inch floppy drive. 500Mb HDD.

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  Reply # 289152 12-Jan-2010 08:55
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It's highly unlikely the cable from the pole would run all the way to your first jack. External cabling is heavy black cable, if you don't have this running to the jack it has been joined somewhere.

If any work has been done in the past ~15 years an ETP (external termination point) box would have been installed on the house somewhere. This is a white box where this external cabling is joined to phone or cat5 cable that runs inside your house.


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  Reply # 289183 12-Jan-2010 10:36
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I pulled the black external cable into the house and terminated it into an easily accesible junction box. But this was only becuase the telecom people will never crawl under the house to fix things. They will always find something else to blame.

But alas for me, I beleive I'm on a Conkin. So it's 2Mbit for me forever.



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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 289434 12-Jan-2010 21:26
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sbiddle it is the heavy black cable that runs to my phone jack. i have traced it from the ground up the inside of the wall into the roof and back down another wall to first phone jack, its all the same cable. i thought it was strange as well that it just came out of the ground does not apear that they even used any type of tube to protect the cable under the drive. i know this house was moved here in the mid 70's and i think it was a dogdy dude that did it.

thanks




Hu? did i do that?
16Mb (EDO RAM), K6-II processor, 2Mb of onboard graphics. 32k dial up modem. 12 speed CD ROM. 5¼-inch floppy drive. 500Mb HDD.

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  Reply # 289551 13-Jan-2010 10:06
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I come across installs all the time that are very similar to what you describe, no conduit black ext2 cable just appears out of the ground.

Having the transisition from the Ext2 leadin at the first phone point and no ETP is also very common even in houses in from the 80s.

If all you are doing is removing 15m of Ext2 cable that is in good condition and in a single piece (ie no joints) then removing it will make no real diff.

Cheers
Cyril

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 289560 13-Jan-2010 10:39
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Unxious: I pulled the black external cable into the house and terminated it into an easily accesible junction box. But this was only becuase the telecom people will never crawl under the house to fix things. They will always find something else to blame.

But alas for me, I beleive I'm on a Conkin. So it's 2Mbit for me forever.


What on earth is a "Conkin"?  Smile

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  Reply # 289608 13-Jan-2010 12:44
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stuzzo:
Unxious: I pulled the black external cable into the house and terminated it into an easily accesible junction box. But this was only becuase the telecom people will never crawl under the house to fix things. They will always find something else to blame.

But alas for me, I beleive I'm on a Conkin. So it's 2Mbit for me forever.


What on earth is a "Conkin"?  Smile


It's a "mini" DSLAM installed in some older Telecom cabinets to deliver ADSL to customers who would have never been able to get ADSL otherwise, typically due to their distance from the exchange.

All the conkins that are in use will be replaced as the cabinetisation program is rolled out.


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  Reply # 289614 13-Jan-2010 12:57
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Hi the name is conklin, has an l in it. Biggist down side of them is that they only take a pair of e1,s as uplimk, so if cascaded out ovwr 16 subs can look a bit dim

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  Reply # 289631 13-Jan-2010 13:54
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sbiddle:
stuzzo:
Unxious: I pulled the black external cable into the house and terminated it into an easily accesible junction box. But this was only becuase the telecom people will never crawl under the house to fix things. They will always find something else to blame.

But alas for me, I beleive I'm on a Conkin. So it's 2Mbit for me forever.


What on earth is a "Conkin"?  Smile


It's a "mini" DSLAM installed in some older Telecom cabinets to deliver ADSL to customers who would have never been able to get ADSL otherwise, typically due to their distance from the exchange.

All the conkins that are in use will be replaced as the cabinetisation program is rolled out.



Thanks for that... x2 Cyril.



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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 289745 13-Jan-2010 18:18
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cyril7: I come across installs all the time that are very similar to what you describe, no conduit black ext2 cable just appears out of the ground.

Having the transisition from the Ext2 leadin at the first phone point and no ETP is also very common even in houses in from the 80s.

If all you are doing is removing 15m of Ext2 cable that is in good condition and in a single piece (ie no joints) then removing it will make no real diff.

Cheers
Cyril


thats what i figured no diff. I think i will give it a go anyway. im going to get my grandfather to help out this time around. hes an ex sparky get him to do the wiring i will just crall under the house. will let you know how it goes.

Cyril how good is that black cable they put in at that age im thinking its from around the 75ish to 80ish error. it appears in good shape when you cut it. it still has the tacky gue still in there and hasnt dried up so im thinking it should be good. not that i can do much about it. its running under the drive after all.

Maby move closer to the exchange/road side cab haha

thanks for you help

will report back with new stats from my router after i shorten the cable




Hu? did i do that?
16Mb (EDO RAM), K6-II processor, 2Mb of onboard graphics. 32k dial up modem. 12 speed CD ROM. 5¼-inch floppy drive. 500Mb HDD.



360 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 289797 13-Jan-2010 20:36
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i still had one more thing i was not sure on. maby cyri7 could answer seems to be in the know.

if you add more wire to the phone line even though your first phone jack is as close to the phone cable coming in as posible. does this add more resitance to the over all telephone line.

for example if i put in two more phone jacks and for scenario sacks 5meters adds 1 lot of resitance onto the line. if i add 10 m that would be 2 lots

if i plugged the modem/router into the master socket does it pick up the resitance of those two new phone lines with the extra cable so the two lots would be added to each phone jack. or will it only take into the account the xtra restiance if the jack was past the xtra wiring that was put in.

i am confused because i know power always takes the shortest root is it the same with telephone signals?

i guess what i am saying would it add the 2 lots of resitance onto each of the phone jacks or just those past the master jack


hypertheticly if the resitance was big enough to measure. thats why i used the measurements 1lot

hope you can understand? not sure how else to ask it with out drawing a pic




Hu? did i do that?
16Mb (EDO RAM), K6-II processor, 2Mb of onboard graphics. 32k dial up modem. 12 speed CD ROM. 5¼-inch floppy drive. 500Mb HDD.

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  Reply # 289868 14-Jan-2010 08:25
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Hi, the resistance of your 20-50odd meters of cable in your house are of no consequence compared to the 3-4km of cable back to the DSLAM, taking 10m out will make no real differnce.

You talk about adding phone jacks, but I understood (maybe incorrectly) that your naked, so there should be only one phone jack that the modem is connected to. If infact you dont have a naked line then you should have a central filter installed, this will essentially isolate off all phone wiring behind the filter so it will have no effect on the DSL signal regardless of how much cable and how many jacks or phone devices.

With a central filter you ideally install it early on in the house wiring and run a clean line from there to the modem and the rest of the existing wiring now behind the filter is of little interest.


As for Ext2 (black poly ethylene) cable, its perfectly fine for carrying voice and DSL services, its better than the multipair cables than have dragged the signal 3-4km from the exchange. What kills DSL signals is bad joints, star cabling, and unfiltered phone devices, or too many filters, hence a central filter is an optimal solution.

Cheers
Cyril

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  Reply # 289922 14-Jan-2010 11:32
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Signal degredation isn't so much about resistance as it is bandwidth. Cables have a capacitance value associated with them. The strand composition (multi stranded, single strand, shielded etc) effects the capacitance. The capacitance is between your cable pair and directly affects what bandwidth signal can be delivered. This capacitance creates a high pass filter.

It's the crap quality telephone extension wire which degrades the final in-house leg of your precious bandwidth. So shortening it isn't as crucial as usual the correct guage wire for the length of run.

And as for conduit. It's not needed. A plastic sheathed cable which is not in contact with sunlight isn't degrading any time soon. The grease packing assures it is airtight.




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